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Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

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Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#181

Post by encryptluks2 »

vannevar wrote: post #144
nulld3v wrote: post #67

I am vaccinated but I am upvoting this post because I believe that it is important to investigate these cases to determine how to improve future vaccines. I really don't like how this topic seems to be treated like some fringe conspiracy theory. Maybe it is just a conspiracy, but we won't ever know until sufficient research has been done. Currently, I still believe that people should vaccinate, even if vaccines cause…

The problem here isn't the study---of course we should study possible vaccine side effects. The problem is the massive leaps of logic being made by people who have (quite wrongly, based on available evidence) become convinced that the vaccines are a greater threat to healthy people than the virus is. As unlikely as it is that an otherwise healthy young person will die from covid, it is even less likely that they'll d…

There is a lot of evidence that the system to report vaccine injuries is largely ignored and people that report issues are ostracized for doing so. It also begs to question how often injuries would go unreported or misreported because of the difficulties of being linked to the actual cause, and many doctors may be unwilling to claim a vaccine caused an injury just due to the stigma around vaccine injuries, especially in regards to COVID-19.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#182

Post by jszymborski »

tempsy wrote: post #164
vannevar wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here isn't the study---of course we should study possible vaccine side effects. The problem is the massive leaps of logic being made by people who have (quite wrongly, based on available evidence) become convinced that the vaccines are a greater threat to healthy people than the virus is. As unlikely as it is that an otherwise healthy young person will die from covid, it is even less likely that they'll d…

Ok, so if you believe your chance of dying of covid is improbably small due to age and overall health, why is it necessary to be vaccinated even if there's only a small chance of side effects? Rare is not zero. I don't even take OTC pain killers like advil unless I absolutely feel like I have to.

[deleted, I retract my statement]

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#183

Post by DoreenMichele »

Overall, autopsy findings indicated death due to acute arrhythmogenic cardiac failure.

Arrhythmia can be an indicator you need zinc.

Proatherogenic factors, released during Zn deficiency, increase the incidence of arrhythmias, strokes, CM, and many other CV system pathologies

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2021.68607...

Prior discussion with a researcher points to zinc as significant wrt covid.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#184

Post by seydor »

Regardless of any possible danger of vaccination, one has to also consider that vaccination doesnt prevent infection, which is important. As more studies come to light it s becoming evident that Covid damages our bodies in many ways, even with mild infections, it weakens our immune systems and the damage is cumulative every time we catch it. We should be preventing infections , with measures that are appropriate, instead of trying to mitigate the symptoms as we do with vaccines.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#185

Post by addingadimensio »

librish wrote: post #39

A question for vaccine skeptics: For it to be a reasonable choice to not want to take the vaccine wouldn't you need to balance the risk of death / complications from the vaccine against the risk of death / complications from covid multiplied by the risk of getting covid? There seems to be a lot of "aha I knew it" whenever any side-effect of the vaccine is found, but aren't the side-effects of covid well established,…

Everyone got the vaccine and everyone still got covid. you have to get the vaccine and then covid and then more vaccine and then more Covid and you’re saying it’s clear to you what the benefit risk is in this jumble of vaccinations and Covid vaccines really you know what it is you’re sure you read the paper of the research it’s out there for everyone to just look at?

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#186

Post by mikeyouse »

nyolfen wrote: post #87
kaio wrote: post #42

Key takeaway: >>The reported incidence of (epi-)myocarditis after vaccination is low and the risks of hospitalization and death associated with COVID-19 are stated to be greater than the recorded risk associated with COVID-19 vaccination [29].

the more interesting unaddressed question is, for whom ? i am a young-ish healthy person, i have basically no risk of ending up in the hospital for covid. what is the risk tradeoff for people similar to me, rather than an abstraction of the entire population? what is the risk tradeoff for a young child, who effectively has zero risk of serious covid?

That's not even the complete question though -- because by all accounts, Covid actually results in a higher incidence of myocarditis than the vaccine does.. Given the tenor of the conspiracy theories here, the landscape of questions is too nuanced for HN I guess. Ideally, the vaccine recommendation would weigh:

Incidence and seriousness of myocarditis (ISM) naturally / in absence of covid or vaccine, ISM following vaccine, ISM following Covid, ISM after being vaccinated but later catching Covid, relative risk of death / or the other litany of problems following unvaccinated covid infection, same but with vaccinated covid infection and the increased chances of avoiding infection after being vaccinated.

It's possible that vaccines are leading to more myocarditis, covid is certainly leading to more myocarditis, most cases of myocarditis are undetected and resolve on their own with no health impact at all.. as expected, weird antivaxxers are harping on point 1 to the detriment of anyone actually interested in public health.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#187

Post by ycombinete »

nulld3v wrote: post #67

I am vaccinated but I am upvoting this post because I believe that it is important to investigate these cases to determine how to improve future vaccines. I really don't like how this topic seems to be treated like some fringe conspiracy theory. Maybe it is just a conspiracy, but we won't ever know until sufficient research has been done. Currently, I still believe that people should vaccinate, even if vaccines cause…

I agree with you, there’s a weirdly political zealotry when it comes to such things.

I took the Sinopharm vac as I felt hesitant to take what I considered to be brand new tech in the MRNA vaccines (I ended up taking the MRNA one as well but that was for travel reasons where I live). And people online acted like I was a conspiracy theorist, for preferring the tried and tested tech of the traditional vaccine.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#188

Post by c1ccccc1 »

hammock wrote: post #118
pianoben wrote: post #93

> Standardized autopsies were performed on 25 persons who had died unexpectedly and within 20 days after anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaccination. Sample size of 25 out of a population of... how many tens of millions of young (EDIT: not actually young) men? Seems quite small, and perhaps not sufficient to draw any conclusions. I wonder what the results will show... > myocarditis is another manifestation reported during SARS-CoV-2…

>the authors offer no real ideas about how the damage could have happened They do, though. In fact that's the entirely novel value that this study brings. It's in the title: "histopathological characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination." That's a lot of words that means "we can now tell you exactly what microscopic tissue looks like following lethal jab-associated myocarditis.” And the scientis…

Fascinating. Without a detailed knowledge of biology, it seems like this could affect any cell type, why would heart muscle cells specifically be targeted? Are the spike proteins just more likely to get stuck to the surface of certain types of cell?

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#189

Post by fzeroracer »

gfodor wrote: post #169
fzeroracer wrote: post #80

The discussion here is absolutely rancid. So here are the actual the salient points from the study: > Standardized autopsies were performed on 25 persons who had died unexpectedly and within 20 days after anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaccination. In four patients who received a mRNA vaccination, we identified acute (epi-)myocarditis without detection of another significant disease or health constellation that may have caused an u…

It seems obvious at this point that there is a mechanism of action of the drug in the vaccine that can harm the heart and it’s highly likely this can lead to death. It’s time to stop mandating it for kids.

Obvious according to who? I literally directly addressed that claim, so I'll quote it again for you:

> Myocarditis is another manifestation reported during SARS-CoV-2-infection [24]. It is under debate whether myocarditis in COVID-19 is primarily caused by the viral infection or whether it occurs secondary as a consequence of the host´s immune response, in particular by T-lymphocyte-mediated cytotoxicity or as a consequence of the cytokine storm observed during COVID-19

We don't know whether or not Myocarditis is a result of the infection or the immune response; in either scenario people who are predisposed to myocarditis would likely have similar reactions during either infection or vaccine.

If myocarditis is a result of the immune system response to the spike protein then infection by COVID and/or vaccination can potentially trigger a response, with COVID likely triggering an even worse response with what we know and how it travels through the body. Additionally, as I also mentioned and will quote:

> However, the vaccine against smallpox, based on a vaccinia virus, is reported to cause (epi-)myocarditis in rare cases

Smallpox vaccines can also trigger myocarditis despite being a more 'traditional' vaccine.

We distributed smallpox vaccines and managed to eradicate smallpox thanks to being thorough.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#190

Post by addingadimensio »

putnambr wrote: post #112
Mikeb85 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but aren't the side-effects of covid well established, on average more severe, and much more common? You forgot to account for the risk of getting the virus. If you choose to get the vaccine, the probability is 1. But what's the probability of getting Covid? Definitely less than 1. For certain age groups (young men), the risk of complications * probability of getting the vaccine (1) was more than the risk of compli…

From OC: > wouldn't you need to balance the risk of death / complications from the vaccine against the risk of death / complications from covid multiplied by the risk of getting covid? For certain demographics the probability of getting infected might be that low, but at least in every social young adult I know, the risk is averaged to well over 1.0. I've been infected twice, before and after the jab, and in both cas…

Wow that’s so scientific considering those are completely different strains of Covid and one infection you got immune naive and one you got after an infection and a vaccination. It’s so clear as mud
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