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Ask HN: How might HN build a social network together?

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Re: Ask HN: How might HN build a social network together?

#191

Post by baandang »

shanebellone wrote: post #98
fleddr wrote: post #91

In any social media design you have to take well known power laws into account. You may consider HN currently to be a highly engaging site but you have to consider why that is: a huge amount of eye balls is watching a tiny set of content, a list of a few dozens links. Next, if as little as 1% joins in discussion, the result is threads with substance. Great outcome, but you're probably ignoring that 99% didn't engage.…

Most social networks make posting (or whatever specific terminology is being used) equivalent to talking at someone. The correct model would foster conversation and thus impact engagement. Small social groups discuss topics. Offering a topic for conversation implicitly earns a response. Rarely do groups of friends get together to declare simple and unrelated one-liners. An "ideal" social network might be more related…

A problem though is how real world social networks operate. People love to gather with a bunch of strangers over coffee or at restaurants but have absolutely nothing to do with each other besides sitting in close proximity.

Everyone wants to design an online social network as if there is all this spirited high brow debate going on at the local Starbucks when in reality it is a bunch of people shoulder to shoulder ignoring each other.

If people really wanted interaction it would be trivial in the real world. Online social networks let people indulge in their want to talk AT strangers. This is absolutely a feature and not a bug of the software.

Even within myself, the idea of a 19th century style salon sounds really cool but I would never show up to one physically. An online salon with more than a handful of people would be cool but it would break down quickly as it scales up past 20 or so participants until it basically approaches Twitter.

Re: Ask HN: How might HN build a social network together?

#192

Post by DoreenMichele »

When I was a moderator for tagfam.org, I was privy to internal research that the founder had done. About 20 percent of members were active on a regular basis and about 10 percent more were occasionally active. The rest lurked and just read.

People can readily navigate a community of about 150 members. On two different forums, once current membership got past about 750 people, things started splintering off into new groups. Do the math: 20 percent of 750 is 150.

Above that figure of 150, the way people handle social interaction is with formal processes and protecting their privacy. They try to limit what they share about themselves on a "need to know" basis. Some people are better at this than others.

This is where my life got very painful when I first went online: I didn't know how to do that. I had never really interacted with "the public" though I thought I had. I had been a homemaker and before that a student. I knew lots of people, but those people were mostly family and friends. I had extremely limited experience with customers, bosses, etc. and didn't really know how to be selective about the details I shared with an eye towards protecting myself and this went weird places.

To remedy that, I have had to consciously think about such things a whole lot. I've even collected data at times and so forth.

Many people are not super clear about such distinctions. If they grew up in a big city, maybe they don't readily share intimate details with anyone and don't really think about how much they leave out. If they grew up in a village, maybe they make no real distinction between friends and strangers and just let it all hang out and don't understand when it comes back to bite them.

A lot of the problems we have currently online exist because the internet puts us rather unnaturally in touch with a much broader selection of people than in-person interactions are likely to for most people. It's harder to say things online that won't have someone up in arms because you stepped on their toes without realizing it.

I've been trying to sort out how to interact positively with people on Twitter (and in other online spaces) for a long time, people I may not know at all but may have interests in common with. I think a lot of our online social media issues ultimately will be solved -- if they get solved at all -- by working on this issue.

Re: Ask HN: How might HN build a social network together?

#193

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

trabant00 wrote: post #33

I think nobody would use a social network that would be created by the most popular ideas that float on HN. Established social networks are popular not despite their "problems" but because of them: nobody wants to manage their own data people are on social networks to be entertained not to "keep up with old friends" they want to be where brands, advertising and celebs are they want the opposite of decentralization, t…

> click bait, outrage, etc, again are what people are looking for

I don't think people actively seek clickbait and outrage, but rather, are simply drawn to it when they see it.

Re: Ask HN: How might HN build a social network together?

#194

Post by sdwr »

ineptech wrote: post #129

Fleeting idea that could be combined with that: a web-of-trust social network where you can only "friend" people in real life, by tapping phones. When you do so, the app might say, "The person you just met claims to be Joe Schmoe, do you want to vouch for them?" If you approve them, they can message you and vice versa. A friend of Joe's can see you in his friend list, and try to message you, and you can accept it if…

To shreds you say? And his wife?

Hearing a lot on this thread about folding real life back into social networks, making the system designed to keep people on the happy, healthy, human-scaled social path. Today's SMBC lines up pretty neatly - https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/addicted

Re: Ask HN: How might HN build a social network together?

#195

Post by AnimalMuppet »

Hmm. I had almost the same idea, though I called it "rooms" instead of "social circles". But, yeah, segment my online social network, so that my crazy uncle can't get in my political discussions, and my wife is not afflicted with my tech ones. (But that doesn't actually keep the uncle from bringing the political discussion to the family "room"...)

I'm not sure whether limiting the size is a good idea (though I can see the reasons for it). But if it is, I suspect that 10 is too small.

Re: Ask HN: How might HN build a social network together?

#196

Post by mattdesl »

mistermann wrote: post #90
soliton4 wrote: post #36

what is the point of creating yet another social network unless you have a key feature to make it distinct and valuable? if you just make a twitter / facebook clone for tech people all you are doing is dividing yourself from other people. that might be desireable for some people but i dont think its worth persueing in the long term. i propose we create something that addresses existing problems and adds new features.…

Blockchain would make it distinct, but would it provide unique value to users? I certainly agree that we need some innovation in the space.

The main value would be decentralization—the ability to carry your social graph across competing web and native clients, somewhat like RSS and Podcast apps. I wrote about it here:

https://mirror.xyz/mattdesl.eth/_F9vQAUeeBB9AJNwMNaE_G5kTcl1...

Re: Ask HN: How might HN build a social network together?

#198

Post by shanebellone »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #190
ineptech wrote: post #129

Fleeting idea that could be combined with that: a web-of-trust social network where you can only "friend" people in real life, by tapping phones. When you do so, the app might say, "The person you just met claims to be Joe Schmoe, do you want to vouch for them?" If you approve them, they can message you and vice versa. A friend of Joe's can see you in his friend list, and try to message you, and you can accept it if…

The first problem I see is separating my online identity with my real identity. I really don't want anyone at my job finding out which dog I am on the internet. My coworkers and family really wouldn't appreciate my shit posting. :) The second is friends of friends can get really awkward. There are some people who are friends with me that are also friends with people who never want to see me again.

That's exactly the point of small social circles. You can segment your audience as a broadcaster based on shared interests, language, and understanding.

The vast majority of the Internet doesn't need to read your shit posting. However, a small group of friends might find that appealing. If no one finds that content useful, amusing, or interesting... you'd be screaming at a wall. Isn't that exactly how it should be?

Re: Ask HN: How might HN build a social network together?

#199

Post by axus »

time_to_smile wrote: post #130
bil7 wrote: post #6

I think what would really be great is a social media site that doesn't offer direct image or video hosting. A bit like how reddit used to be. You just have link aggregation, voting, and comments. That's it. Maybe in a nice, clean, minimal UI as well. This would lend itself to tech folk I think. If only it existed.

> link aggregation One thing I've noticed over the years is that most social media companies have slowly started to discourage outbound links. On reddit a surprising number of subs no longer allow you to just submit links, and a growing number require review before posting external content. Even Twitter (before Musk) was clearly deprioritizing external links. This is a bit troubling because it further leads to the "d…

I'd thought Reddit subs prohibited links because it attracts spam and marketing disguised as organic recommendations. For Twitter, they promote organic content "for free" but want to make the inorganic stuff pay money for promotion.

Discord is close the original poster's idea for a social network, replace "social circle" with "Discord server" and lower the member limit for a server. Back to your topic, a semi-private Discord server/social circle moderator can ban anyone posting spam links so its not a huge problem there.

Re: Ask HN: How might HN build a social network together?

#200

Post by kayodelycaon »

shanebellone wrote: post #198
kayodelycaon wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first problem I see is separating my online identity with my real identity. I really don't want anyone at my job finding out which dog I am on the internet. My coworkers and family really wouldn't appreciate my shit posting. :) The second is friends of friends can get really awkward. There are some people who are friends with me that are also friends with people who never want to see me again.

That's exactly the point of small social circles. You can segment your audience as a broadcaster based on shared interests, language, and understanding. The vast majority of the Internet doesn't need to read your shit posting. However, a small group of friends might find that appealing. If no one finds that content useful, amusing, or interesting... you'd be screaming at a wall. Isn't that exactly how it should be?

That's... not relevant? OP was talking about a system that requires tapping phones to connect and using friends of friends to form secondary connections.

This is why I have a burner sim for online accounts requiring a phone number. (Looking at you Telegram...)

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