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Twitter has re-suspended ElonJet account

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Re: Twitter has re-suspended ElonJet account

#511

What I really like about ElonJet and Sweeney's other accounts is they included emission estimates. Really blew a hole in the idea that you could ever consider Musk or Gates to be environmentalists. A recent Musk flight between Washington and Miami emitted 9 tons of CO2 [1], which is nearly double what a fuel inefficient car would emit each year. How can you tell me I'm the problem with my single truck and couple of c…

> What I really like about ElonJet and Sweeney's other accounts is they included emission estimates.

December 5th: 28 tons CO2

That's more than the typical American does in a year and he did it in a few hours. Between Dec 1st and Dec 5th his flights resulted in 100 tons of CO2.

Gates, between Dec 7th and Dec 13th (similarly 5 days) produced 262 tons. https://web.archive.org/web/20221214164008/https://twitter.c...

Re: Twitter has re-suspended ElonJet account

#512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My preferred operationalization of free speech is "minimum intimidation". Slurs don't qualify for protection under this operationalization, because they intimidate the listener without providing any information content. Same goes for protesting a talk so loudly that the speaker is drowned out, or doxxing. If your speech serves only to intimidate others into silence, I don't think it should be protected. Curious to he…

Imo it's too simple a ruleset you've got here, though I get why we want to do this because in the end what we're all trying to do is find out how we could write down something enforceable, like a TOS or law. Those things can't be very vague... Sort of. Laws seem to allow for some discretion on the part of the justice system. Anyway to me it's similar to saying "violence is bad," yet we probably both believe people sh…

>Anyway to me it's similar to saying "violence is bad," yet we probably both believe people should be allowed to emoloy violence when violence is being done to them.

Yep, there's an important parallel.

I think a good frame is "protected speech". If someone says something to try & intimidate you, and you respond by trying to intimidate them, then nothing said by either party should be considered "protected" -- Twitter admins should feel free to delete the entire exchange.

I don't think a policy of "intimidating speech for self-defense is protected" is workable, because people will intimidate others and claim it was in response to something the person said to intimidate them, and adjudicating such claims gets messy. If you want to say something nasty to someone else because they were nasty to you, go ahead. Just don't expect your rejoinder to be protected.

>Hateful speech (slurs etc) are a form of attack, they're a form of violence.

I don't think we should use the word "violence" this way, because reserving the word "violence" for physical harm helps us avoid upward spirals of antagonism.

It's good if a conflict stays in the realm of words and doesn't go beyond that. Calling speech "violence" blurs the boundary between those domains.

Re: Twitter has re-suspended ElonJet account

#513

Many people have been trying to get the point across that legal, unlimited free speech can put people in harm's way. Elon is happy to say that he's willing to trade harm to those people for his free speech principles, but as soon as his family is the one facing the repercussions, he's happy to change policy and sue.

He supports LibsofTikTok, which has resulting in whole hospitals being shut down by terrorists. He unbanned Taleb Kweli, who was banned for using twitter to stalk, harass, and organise mobs against a woman he didn't like. His campaign against Yoel Roth has resulted in Roth and his family having to flee their house. He's very, very happy with threats, including death threats if they are people that he doesn't like.

Musk is a hypocrite. Twitter will be his downfall and hopefully he takes the conservatives and their “constitutional right to post” with him.

Re: Twitter has re-suspended ElonJet account

#514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blocking speech that may be harmful to a handful of millionaires and billionares = Common Sense. Not promoting speech that may be harmful to tens of thousands of already marginalized people = Woke Mind Virus

Elon said: >Any account doxxing real-time location info of anyone will be suspended, as it is a physical safety violation. This includes posting links to sites with real-time location info. From https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603181423787380737 You can see Twitter's full policy here: https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/personal-info... A hypothetical account that broadcasted the location of marginali…

The difference is that the information we're talking about here is already completely public information, repackaged in a different format. It would be more like an account that tweets the nearest homeless shelter to you - open information, packaged differently.

Where it might become more problematic would be if the account included inciting language with the information ("here is a homeless shelter, go and mob it"; "Elon's about to land in CDG, who wants to stage a riot"). But I think it's clear that that's not what this account is doing - it's just giving information out that already exists.

And for what it's worth, it's not just Musk who gets this treatment. Most British political events of the last few years have involved journalists excitedly gathering around flightradar24 and watching some poor minister's plane as they make their way back to London to get fired, hand in their resignation, etc. That's essentially the same thing that this Twitter feed is doing (albeit usually more focused on the event rather than 24/7 tracking of one vehicle), but it's not considered a security risk because it honestly isn't. I mean, when the Queen died, Huw Edwards did the same thing for the Princes' plane, and he'll probably win a BAFTA for it...

In all fairness, I have some sympathy towards Musk, as it sounds like he's dealing with the shock of his child being stalked. That's going to evoke a strong emotional reaction, and I can completely understand why he'd want to shut this sort of thing down. But that doesn't make it useful (the information is still public, and anyone motivated enough to track Musk down IRL doesn't need Twitter to find it), nor does it change the hypocrisy of the situation. It seems like he's just lashing out at the wrong person, and making decisions over things that he can control.

Re: Twitter has re-suspended ElonJet account

#515

What I really like about ElonJet and Sweeney's other accounts is they included emission estimates. Really blew a hole in the idea that you could ever consider Musk or Gates to be environmentalists. A recent Musk flight between Washington and Miami emitted 9 tons of CO2 [1], which is nearly double what a fuel inefficient car would emit each year. How can you tell me I'm the problem with my single truck and couple of c…

This is always the commentary about leaders and business people from all over the world flying their private jets to Davos to discuss solutions to climate change.

Each one of those flights also use several times the amount of carbon an American produces per year.

Re: Twitter has re-suspended ElonJet account

#516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Free Speech Absolutism" is just another conservative boondoggle that they can endlessly talk about to attract voters. Of course actually trying to put it in practice immediately falls apart, but that's not the point. Nobody on the malicious side of the "malicious or stupid?" scale actually wants everyone to have unfettered freedom of speech (see: republican outrage at LGBTQ rights, people teaching/learning about sys…

>people teaching/learning about systemic racism ('CRT') This is less of a free speech issue, and more of a "what should government employees be paid to do" issue. It's the difference between a gutter punk wearing a swastika, and a cop on duty wearing a swastika. The constitution prohibits the government from making a law regarding the gutter punk. But while the cop is on duty, they're an employee of the state, and it…

It’s a fair point. Systemic racism by police is a real thing, and the culture of silence and borderline extortionate tactics employed by police unions make it hard to change. Voters can say we don’t want to pay for that kind of institutional bad behavior. . . But all too often what we want doesn’t matter.

Re: Twitter has re-suspended ElonJet account

#517
post #465

As a reminder, as Elon talks about personal safety, this is the man who posted personal information about a former employee of his on twitter that ended with him having to “move his entire family because of the death threats that showed up” https://www.entrepreneur.com/business-news/ex-twitter-employ...

I can't find which personal info did Musk publish about Yoel Roth in that linked article or any other. Was it home address? Or something else?

Re: Twitter has re-suspended ElonJet account

#518
post #443

I'm surprised he doesn't just have the pilot turn the ADS-B off given his attitude toward following the law.

In todays geopolitcal situation flight over US soil with transponder off will end rather shortly I guess. Fortunately for us rules for getting pilot license are rather strict.

Re: Twitter has re-suspended ElonJet account

#519

What I really like about ElonJet and Sweeney's other accounts is they included emission estimates. Really blew a hole in the idea that you could ever consider Musk or Gates to be environmentalists. A recent Musk flight between Washington and Miami emitted 9 tons of CO2 [1], which is nearly double what a fuel inefficient car would emit each year. How can you tell me I'm the problem with my single truck and couple of c…

> How can you tell me... ? I'm not presenting this as fact but the argument is clearly that Musk's net effect on the global population is positive through his career choice and life's work, and that jetting around is necessary for him to complete this life's work.

He could do that shit with a Zoom meeting. Musk has enough money to get one of those really swanky Cisco telepresence tanks. He doesn't need a fucking jet to complete anything except being another asshole billionaire.

Re: Twitter has re-suspended ElonJet account

#520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk disagreed with you until today, he explicitly said that he would be leaving this exact account up because he believed in free speech even when it was about his location.

It is possible for people to learn and change their minds. I'm pretty sure that doxxing is not allowed on HN, Reddit, and other platforms, including the D language forums. I'm good with that.

I sincerely hope he learns and changes his mind.

Evidence so far is that he’s not principled enough to do so. “Free speech absolutism” just meant he didn’t give a fuck as long as he wasn’t the one at risk. I don’t think that will change, but I’d love to be wrong.

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