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Twitter has re-suspended ElonJet account

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Re: Twitter has re-suspended ElonJet account

#491

Post by komali2 »

ShredKazoo wrote: post #450
theteapot wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doxxing is not free speech. The sensible majority of people understand that. It's only a vocal small minority of idiots and troublemakers that argue otherwise.

My preferred operationalization of free speech is "minimum intimidation". Slurs don't qualify for protection under this operationalization, because they intimidate the listener without providing any information content. Same goes for protesting a talk so loudly that the speaker is drowned out, or doxxing. If your speech serves only to intimidate others into silence, I don't think it should be protected. Curious to he…

Imo it's too simple a ruleset you've got here, though I get why we want to do this because in the end what we're all trying to do is find out how we could write down something enforceable, like a TOS or law. Those things can't be very vague... Sort of. Laws seem to allow for some discretion on the part of the justice system.

Anyway to me it's similar to saying "violence is bad," yet we probably both believe people should be allowed to emoloy violence when violence is being done to them.

I think similarly applies to hate speech. If a nazi shows up to campus to deliver their message of hate, it's ethical to drown them out and prevent any spread of the hateful message.

"But both sides but hypocrisy but free speech"

Imo tolerance is not a universal ethical position but instead a peace treaty. Peace treaties should not be suicidal. If you make a peace treaty with someone and they attack, you should abandon the treaty.

Hateful speech (slurs etc) are a form of attack, they're a form of violence. They don't have a place in civil society, civil society should not allow this sort of speech or behavior in it. Someone who is saying these sorts of things is telling you clear as day that they don't tolerate some part of you. So why should you tolerate them? They've abandoned the treaty.

What that doesn't mean is that civil society should go out of their way to hunt and kill anybody that likes to say slurs: that's the opposite of a peace treaty. More like they should be rejected utterly from participating until they're willing to again subscribe to a peace treaty (by being civil, not attacking people).

Deplatforming vocal racists is thus ethical. Their language is attack on civility and our ability to maintain peaceful society.

It's an important distinction.

Re: Twitter has re-suspended ElonJet account

#492

Post by mlindner »

TehCorwiz wrote: post #350
hakanderyal wrote: post #96

Elon posted some info[0] that gives it some context: "Last night, car carrying lil X in LA was followed by crazy stalker (thinking it was me), who later blocked car from moving & climbed onto hood. Legal action is being taken against Sweeney & organizations who supported harm to my family." Make that what you will. [0]: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603190155107794944

The flight information that twitter account was using is publically available and required by law to BE public. https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7zygg/twitter-bans-elon-mus... "Sweeney has been using sites such as ADS-B Exchange to track the movements of private jets blogging to celebrities, tech billionaires, and Russian oligarchs for years now. By law, the movement of these plans is publicly available information.…

This confuses the issue though. ICAO numbers change if your aircraft is enrolled in the PIA program, which Elon is. Sweeny was bypassing this by using people on the ground to circumvent this by watching the jet's movement and if an aircraft was going to takeoff that had an unknown ICAO number he'd have someone at the airport to figure out it was Elon's jet that had changed it's ICAO number.

Your link will only be valid until he again changes his ICAO number.

More info: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy

Re: Twitter has re-suspended ElonJet account

#493

Post by [deleted] »

runjake wrote: post #463
kjksf wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://twitter.com/scottwww/status/1490553502640140288 > Elon uses the FAA PIA privacy program for a private plane ID. When using a PIA address, the owner is anon and private, not public. Sweeney’s workaround is (likely) to spot a (rare) ICAO plane resembling Musk’s & noting the private code. You can no longer claim it's public. It was de-anonymized in some way. It's no longer a case of reposting public information…

Stop spamming this thread repeatedly with the same information again and again. His plane registration is not anonymized and is well-known[1]. 1. https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResul...

[deleted]

Re: Twitter has re-suspended ElonJet account

#494

Post by sooheon »

ShredKazoo wrote: post #450
theteapot wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doxxing is not free speech. The sensible majority of people understand that. It's only a vocal small minority of idiots and troublemakers that argue otherwise.

My preferred operationalization of free speech is "minimum intimidation". Slurs don't qualify for protection under this operationalization, because they intimidate the listener without providing any information content. Same goes for protesting a talk so loudly that the speaker is drowned out, or doxxing. If your speech serves only to intimidate others into silence, I don't think it should be protected. Curious to he…

There is speech that is intended to directly harm without intimidating, no?

Re: Twitter has re-suspended ElonJet account

#496

Post by mlindner »

thrulisk wrote: post #454
theteapot wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Later in same article: > Musk has also apparently requested, via the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), that his plane not be tracked on third-party sites like FlightAware ... “This aircraft is on the the FAA blocklist meaning it is not allowed to be displayed to the general public,” a FlightAware spokesperson said in an email to Motherboard. “This is something that all 3rd party trackers do usually follow as a l…

I assume they are referring to the blocklist described here: https://www.faa.gov/pilots/ladd > ADS-B Out transmits flight data directly from the aircraft to internet vendors not participating in the LADD program. Non-participating internet vendors collect and post all ADS-B Out flight data on the internet. To address ADS-B Out privacy concerns, the FAA has initiated the Privacy ICAO Address (PIA) program to improve t…

LADD is only one system, that adsbexchange doesn't use, but PIA still applies to them. Once the ICAO number changes the link the person posted above will no longer point to Elon's jet. You'd have to again have someone in person at the airport to deanonymize the jet.

ADSB Exchange can't get around ICAO anonymizing just by looking at the transponder data.

Re: Twitter has re-suspended ElonJet account

#497

Post by rvz »

perryizgr8 wrote: post #345

Why is this topic dominating HN?? It's just a private website enforcing its own made up rules. They can do whatever they like, ban whoever they don't like. If you have a problem with it make your own Twitter.

Very sure that I've seen the same statement made before the Twitter takeover that it being a private platform and they can do whatever they like, add and enforce whatever rules in their TOS they like and ban whoever they like as long as long it is legal. It is still true now and it always has been for Twitter.

If anyone doesn't like the bans on impersonators, unlabelled bots, real time live location trackers and the now removed illegal CP and child exploitation images being posted on Twitter which stayed their for years on Twitter before the takeover, they can indeed build their own federated Twitter to post all of that garbage.

Twitter has always been a cesspool and the people screaming here about it should have left Twitter years ago; before Musk, instead of tolerating the garbage that proliferated on the site.

Re: Twitter has re-suspended ElonJet account

#498

Post by ShredKazoo »

sooheon wrote: post #494
ShredKazoo wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My preferred operationalization of free speech is "minimum intimidation". Slurs don't qualify for protection under this operationalization, because they intimidate the listener without providing any information content. Same goes for protesting a talk so loudly that the speaker is drowned out, or doxxing. If your speech serves only to intimidate others into silence, I don't think it should be protected. Curious to he…

There is speech that is intended to directly harm without intimidating, no?

Can you give an example of harmful speech that doesn't also intimidate? I think most speech intended to harm also ends up intimidating people, but there are probably exceptions that aren't coming to mind.

Re: Twitter has re-suspended ElonJet account

#499

Post by elkos »

hakanderyal wrote: post #96

Elon posted some info[0] that gives it some context: "Last night, car carrying lil X in LA was followed by crazy stalker (thinking it was me), who later blocked car from moving & climbed onto hood. Legal action is being taken against Sweeney & organizations who supported harm to my family." Make that what you will. [0]: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603190155107794944

Don't Teslas have several cameras that may record such incidents. If that's the case, can't someone accessing the vehicle's controls share with Elon and the world that this was the case?

Re: Twitter has re-suspended ElonJet account

#500

Post by mlindner »

akiselev wrote: post #395
fallous wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Knowing when/where a private plane lands makes it a lot easier to stalk the passengers of that plane. This is of course entirely separate from whether such info was used against Musk or his family, or whether such a possibility is sufficient grounds for attempting to silence those who make it easily accessible (it's still accessible thanks to ADS-B for anyone with basic technical skills and cares enough).

Step 1. Google “elon musk tail number” Step 2. Copy one of the tail numbers from the first result: “N628TS, N272BG, N502SX” Step 3. Paste one of the tail numbers into any one of the flight tracker apps. If your stalkers can’t even figure that out, you don’t have to worry about them. Otherwise… it’ll take them an extra 45 seconds compared to finding the ElonJet twitter account. Edit: for bonus points Google “site:faa.…

I can link links as well.

https://www.faa.gov/pilots/ladd

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy

The first blocks it from showing up on sites like flightradar24 which filters out LADD aircraft.

The second makes it so you can't go from tail number to tracking the aircraft once the ICAO has changed and ADSB Exchange doesn't manually update their database of which pseudonymous ICAO numbers are connected to which tail numbers.

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