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ElonJet Is Now Suspended

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Re: ElonJet Is Now Suspended

#411

Post by plorg »

yanderekko wrote: post #336
plorg wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steel manning really only works if you can assume the other person continues to argue in good faith. If the other person keeps moving the goalposts and demanding you construct a strong argument for their behavior they're just being abusive and I would suggest the best course of action is to leave.

Steelmanning requires the person you're talking to to be arguing in good faith, not the actual subjects of the narrative being steelmanned. The whole point of steelmanning is to grant those subjects good faith even if you personally think it's unwise, because the person you're talking to may disagree...

In the context of moving the goalposts, you are asking other commenters to justify another person's actions that are increasingly at odds with their words.

I personally think that the narrative you are interrogating is weak, even a straw man version of the people you think you're arguing with. It seems clear to me that Elon has long operated on personal grievance with respect to Twitter, and that "free speech" is just the veneer he puts on because it works.

Re: ElonJet Is Now Suspended

#412

Post by Someone1234 »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #387
minimaxir wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that Twitter dissolved the Trust and Safety Council after that tweet was posted: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/twitter-disbands-trus... It's unclear if Ella Irwin still works at Twitter, but giving everything going on I strongly suspect there's no one to moderate against Elon personally banning an account he does not like.

I don’t mean to be a antagonistic but as the owner of twitter why would we expect he not have the right and ability to ban anyone he likes? When it was publicly held there was some accountability to the shareholders as part of the public. Now he can literally carry a sink around wherever he wants

He can do what he likes, but he remains open for criticism for those actions (in particular when the hypocrisy is self-evident).

Why do people feel the need to respond to valid criticism with "well technically they're ALLOWED to do [thing]?" That's neither here nor there.

Re: ElonJet Is Now Suspended

#414

Post by f38zf5vdt »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #387
minimaxir wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that Twitter dissolved the Trust and Safety Council after that tweet was posted: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/twitter-disbands-trus... It's unclear if Ella Irwin still works at Twitter, but giving everything going on I strongly suspect there's no one to moderate against Elon personally banning an account he does not like.

I don’t mean to be a antagonistic but as the owner of twitter why would we expect he not have the right and ability to ban anyone he likes? When it was publicly held there was some accountability to the shareholders as part of the public. Now he can literally carry a sink around wherever he wants

> My commitment to free speech extends even to not banning the account following my plane, even though that is a direct personal safety risk

> 7:30 PM · Nov 6, 2022

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456

Re: ElonJet Is Now Suspended

#415

Post by thefilmore »

CommieBobDole wrote: post #356
alarmingfox wrote: post #4

Well it seems like Elon is reneging on his previous commitment to free speech. - https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456

I think Musk's behavior (and the behavior of a lot of public figures, really) makes more sense if you assume that he's not saying things to express ideas, but instead regards words as noises that you make with your mouth that cause other people to do or think things; if they stop having the intended effect, you have to change the noises. It's not hypocrisy, it's the natural outgrowth of seeing other people as a colle…

Do not fall into the trap of anthropomorphizing Elon Musk.

Re: ElonJet Is Now Suspended

#416

Post by einpoklum »

perihelions wrote: post #109

He's also posted internal Twitter screenshots, allegedly showing a VP was personally involved in @ElonJet moderation. (In the context of an earlier moderation action -- visibility filtering ("VF")). - "A screenshot of what he claimed was an internal Slack channel showed Ella Irwin, the person appointed to replace Yoel Roth as Twitter’s new head of trust and safety, asking a “Team” to “please apply heavy VF to @elonje…

"I, for one, welcome our new Tesla overlord. VF @ElonJet immediately."

Re: ElonJet Is Now Suspended

#417

Post by javawizard »

CommieBobDole wrote: post #356
alarmingfox wrote: post #4

Well it seems like Elon is reneging on his previous commitment to free speech. - https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456

I think Musk's behavior (and the behavior of a lot of public figures, really) makes more sense if you assume that he's not saying things to express ideas, but instead regards words as noises that you make with your mouth that cause other people to do or think things; if they stop having the intended effect, you have to change the noises. It's not hypocrisy, it's the natural outgrowth of seeing other people as a colle…

I'm reminded of Bryan Cantrill's famous "Do not anthropomorphize Larry Ellison" diatribe: https://youtu.be/-zRN7XLCRhc?t=2305

Re: ElonJet Is Now Suspended

#418

Post by mrtksn »

JoachimS wrote: post #230
mrtksn wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The good thing about Musk claiming Free speech absolutism is that we can hold him responsible for it. He might be a free speech NIMBY but because he claims to support free speech, his actions that clearly contradict this claim have very heavy toll on his persona. IMHO Musk has a real opportunity to actually make Twitter great, Twitter was in a horrible shape and no one was happy with its state and I hoped that he can…

The problem is that if you do try to point out when he contradicts himself, you get banned.

Twitter is not the only place where people hear things.

Re: ElonJet Is Now Suspended

#419

Post by jmyeet »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #387
minimaxir wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that Twitter dissolved the Trust and Safety Council after that tweet was posted: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/twitter-disbands-trus... It's unclear if Ella Irwin still works at Twitter, but giving everything going on I strongly suspect there's no one to moderate against Elon personally banning an account he does not like.

I don’t mean to be a antagonistic but as the owner of twitter why would we expect he not have the right and ability to ban anyone he likes? When it was publicly held there was some accountability to the shareholders as part of the public. Now he can literally carry a sink around wherever he wants

No one is questioning his right to ban people. People are pointing it out because it exposed both hour thin skinned he is and what hypocritical BS his “free speech” utterances are.

Re: ElonJet Is Now Suspended

#420

Post by danans »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #387
minimaxir wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that Twitter dissolved the Trust and Safety Council after that tweet was posted: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/twitter-disbands-trus... It's unclear if Ella Irwin still works at Twitter, but giving everything going on I strongly suspect there's no one to moderate against Elon personally banning an account he does not like.

I don’t mean to be a antagonistic but as the owner of twitter why would we expect he not have the right and ability to ban anyone he likes? When it was publicly held there was some accountability to the shareholders as part of the public. Now he can literally carry a sink around wherever he wants

> why would we expect he not have the right and ability to ban anyone he likes?

We don't expect that. He absolutely does have the right to do that.

Pointing out his banning of the account simply demonstrates his free-speech absolutist hypocrisy.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456

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