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After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

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Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#301

Post by eps »

todfox wrote: post #200
dabeeeenster wrote: post #76

So this happened to a guy that worked for me. Loved video games, super talented front end dev. Made a horror game in Unity at evenings and weekends with his best friend. Launched it on Steam. Very low sales. But he learnt a huge amount about marketing and game design based on player feedback. Designed a second game, put all the marketing learnings into it, 48 hours after launch the biggest streamer on twitch was stre…

After four years working on my retro game nearly full time, and several launches, I still don't understand marketing enough to understand what to do differently. A lot of the advice out there is something like: "create a community" or "go join several communities" or "get to know other indie devs on Twitter". To me, this simply feels fake. I don't really participate in any online communities. I spend enough time in f…

You have a Catch 22.

Your game looks super basic and through that unappealing. You would've gotten a feedback IF you would've not mentioned the 4 years sunk into the game. Virtually all that feedback would've been negative or critical, but people are just not assholes enough to tear into a massive amount of effort when it seemingly yielded so little. Hence the silence when you try and engage.

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#302

Post by anon84873628 »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #296
larsiusprime wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy: Among Us, for the many months that it toiled in nearly complete obscurity to the point of the development team nearly giving up the ghost and quitting, until one specific streamer picked it up and gave it the critical mass attention it needed to go absolutely huge. Had the developers had slightly less resources and shut down the servers before that crucial moment it would have never happened, even though clearl…

The problem with Among Us is that it's an online game. Meaning you need a certain amount of actual people playing it before it's fun. So it's a chicken or egg problem; it's not fun without players, players won't join if it's not fun. Most good single player games do well.

In other words it's a game dependent on network effects, which definitely makes for an uphill battle. You _have_ to go viral.

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#303

Post by koonsolo »

dabeeeenster wrote: post #76

So this happened to a guy that worked for me. Loved video games, super talented front end dev. Made a horror game in Unity at evenings and weekends with his best friend. Launched it on Steam. Very low sales. But he learnt a huge amount about marketing and game design based on player feedback. Designed a second game, put all the marketing learnings into it, 48 hours after launch the biggest streamer on twitch was stre…

Love your comment, but I want to add something to this:

> 15 years ago this just wasnt possible

Actually around 2003 to 2006 I was doing that. Back then we were releasing games on PocketPC, which sold around $20. It was basically 1 programmer and 1 artist, or some could do that all by themselves.

But then came a period where mobile became really popular, and a lot of money started flowing into that game platform.

But I do agree that now you have both the platforms and tools for small game developers to pull off some very nice games.

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#304

Post by MrVandemar »

fooqux wrote: post #211
todfox wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After four years working on my retro game nearly full time, and several launches, I still don't understand marketing enough to understand what to do differently. A lot of the advice out there is something like: "create a community" or "go join several communities" or "get to know other indie devs on Twitter". To me, this simply feels fake. I don't really participate in any online communities. I spend enough time in f…

>but what's the point of working so hard if nobody gets to enjoy it but me? I have been struggling with this myself. Not just about programming but other creative pursuits as well. Recently it has been photography. I take pictures while knowing whatever I'm looking at has a far better picture on its wikipedia page. I suppose we're supposed to take some sort of fulfillment in the process of creation itself? But that j…

> If I create something, but nobody ever sees it, did I create it at all? Doesn't feel like it.

You have been trained to require external validation for your work. Maybe it's a modern thing with upvotes and twitter and likes and whatnot.

If you create a thing, then you have drawn on your skills, probably improving them. Whether the thing is seen by others is irrelvant. What is relevant is your experience in creating it, and the use of it (whether it has a use, or just has aesthetic value).

Maybe practice by creating something, then destroying it, as if it had never existed. What remains? Memory and skill, both of great value.

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#305

Post by alpaca128 »

ElijahLynn wrote: post #111
sophacles wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another long-time linux user here: During the pandemic I finally decided to get a little bit more into gaming and figured I'll try it on linux to see if it'll work and if nothing else, the technical challenge would be fun. Fortunately I like games after all, because there wasn't any real challenge to getting things working the wine/proton folks have done A LOT to make this stuff just work. I play overwatch and other…

I still haven't looked this up yet, so is Wine now Proton? Can you share the history here?

A few years ago Valve integrated Wine directly into Steam under the name Proton, and started some serious development work on it. As a result you can now play thousands of Windows games on Linux by just clicking "play" in Steam and maybe a bit of tweaking now and then. Years later Valve recently launched the Steam Deck which makes use of all this.

It's not perfect, of course, many games still don't work at all, but if you only know Wine you will be surprised how much better the compatibility and experience is now.

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#306

Post by Herbstluft »

mlindner wrote: post #288
DonHopkins wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

This is pretty normal though. Also I wouldn't say they're racist. They'd strongly object to being called racist as well. And this is in a pretty liberal area too.

> They'd strongly object to being called racist as well.

Every racist objects to being called a racist.

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#307

Post by BoorishBears »

htag wrote: post #201
brundolf wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flipside is that it's a lottery. Steam is overflowing with new indie games every day, and many very good ones die in obscurity. You really have to get lucky and go viral But yeah, the entry fee for that lottery is at a historic low, which is still great (especially for hobby devs who don't care about the rest!)

Is it a straight lottery (random chance), or does marketing play a role along with the game itself?

Marketing matters more than the game if you're an indie, and I don't say that in a cynical way.

Unfortunately I've seen so many people pour their hearts and souls into a game thinking they can just start marketing it when it's ready: You should be engaging with your future audience well before then.

You don't have to take money from them, you don't have to make empty promises, but in the current landscape you need people to be waiting for your game, not you waiting for players, because odds are they won't come.

For every lucky game that gets the right streamer there's 10 more that are truly great games that just never get traction and die.

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#308

Post by bartvk »

ElijahLynn wrote: post #3

Wow, this is such a #goodnews story! > "I'll have to rework… my, uh, whole life, figure out what the heck's going on there. I don't really have any ideas or plans right now. I've just been thinking about dwarf stuff." > "My wife has plans," Zach said. "We live in a tiny little house, so buying a new house, that's a major goal."

I wonder why not he but his wife thought about improving their material circumstances? So content with his life, or so focused on the code, or something else?

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#309

Post by INTPenis »

chaostheory wrote: post #132
bombcar wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe they now have enough cash to emigrate to Canada if they wished to do so.

Canada, like the US, has its own health care crisis. Wait times for medical care seem surreal. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/canada/british-columbia/... https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/ottawa-paramedics-...

Yeah this is a global offensive by the plutocrats to discredit public health care. It's going on in the UK, in Sweden too.

When are people going to wake up and smell the class war?

Re: After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

#310

Post by ambrose2 »

brundolf wrote: post #182
dabeeeenster wrote: post #76

So this happened to a guy that worked for me. Loved video games, super talented front end dev. Made a horror game in Unity at evenings and weekends with his best friend. Launched it on Steam. Very low sales. But he learnt a huge amount about marketing and game design based on player feedback. Designed a second game, put all the marketing learnings into it, 48 hours after launch the biggest streamer on twitch was stre…

The flipside is that it's a lottery. Steam is overflowing with new indie games every day, and many very good ones die in obscurity. You really have to get lucky and go viral But yeah, the entry fee for that lottery is at a historic low, which is still great (especially for hobby devs who don't care about the rest!)

Eh, I have a friend who is incredibly talented and when their indie game became iPhone game of the year it couldn’t have been anyone else I knew, the guy was just that stellar. Definitely a combination of ability and persistence and a little luck.
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