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A software change allowed FTX to use client money

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Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want Engineer in your job title? Then you say no, and you damned well ask questions, and you damned well make sure to leave the moment they make it impossible for you to act ethically.

This should apply to anyone. IMO engineers aren't special. As a human you should try not to fuck over other people.

I assume this is a reference to other engineering disciplines, where an engineer signing off on something has real meaning.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#152
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developers should know to ask questions when a weird request is made. Developers presumably know how to think and have a vague idea of what the business does to know that a ask to futz with internal financials programmatically is fucking wierd.

IME, it depends on your chain of command. I've literally been reprimanded in my career for asking questions. My boss at that time was crap. I didn't choose him. Asking questions can very likely get you fired. Also got reprimanded for disobeying an order at once; my boss — same one as above — would not take "no, we are in a regulated industry, and I cannot do that" for an answer. I ended up going behind his back, gett…

I'm in an industry with a lot of migrant workers, I was asked to write software that would change the time records for migrant workers so they never get overtime.

I said I wouldn't do it unless they showed me the legal advise saying that it was ok. The office sycophant piped up and said "I'll do it". From then on I stopped being invited to meetings and my job transitioned into answering the phone and then out the door.

I hope they jail the developers for 500 years, that's the sort of signal that needs to be sent.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If Jamie Dimon asked a developer at the bank "hey can you have Chase ATMs allow these 10 accounts that are in my name to withdraw unlimited funds?" everyone involved would be in jail. This isn't true I worked for a large bank. I managed data for their mortgages. We bought another bank and processed their mortgages with our systems. There were several thousand accounts that we called "friends of the " because they ha…

In english it means the terms are 40 years to repay the loan at a 2% rate. Not sure how that translates to never really due.

[deleted]

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#154
post #48

> Only Singh, Bankman-Fried and a few other top FTX and Alameda executives knew about the exemption in the code, according to three former executives briefed on the matter. A digital dashboard used by staff to track FTX customer assets and liabilities was programmed so it would not take into account that Alameda had withdrawn the client funds, according to two of the people and a screenshot of the portal that Reuters…

> If you want to see what you should never do as a software engineer if you like not being in jail, this is it. > Singh will definitely get prison time as well But how long? Jerome O'Hara and George Perez were arguably more complicit in Madoff's scheme than anyone, having written the computer software to generate the fake investment return reports and even actively helped dupe the investigating regulators but were on…

For a non-violent crime which saw the recovery of a large fraction of the loot that's not 'only'.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Jamie Dimon asked a developer at the bank "hey can you have Chase ATMs allow these 10 accounts that are in my name to withdraw unlimited funds?" everyone involved would be in jail. This is not dissimilar.

>If Jamie Dimon asked a developer at the bank "hey can you have Chase ATMs allow these 10 accounts that are in my name to withdraw unlimited funds?" everyone involved would be in jail. This isn't true I worked for a large bank. I managed data for their mortgages. We bought another bank and processed their mortgages with our systems. There were several thousand accounts that we called "friends of the " because they ha…

Given the market of the last couple of years they may actually have been able to re-finance that loan with a different bank and gotten better terms. 40 years is a long time.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#156
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developers should know to ask questions when a weird request is made. Developers presumably know how to think and have a vague idea of what the business does to know that a ask to futz with internal financials programmatically is fucking wierd.

IME, it depends on your chain of command. I've literally been reprimanded in my career for asking questions. My boss at that time was crap. I didn't choose him. Asking questions can very likely get you fired. Also got reprimanded for disobeying an order at once; my boss — same one as above — would not take "no, we are in a regulated industry, and I cannot do that" for an answer. I ended up going behind his back, gett…

Being fired for asking questions handily beats going to jail for not asking questions.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#157
post #31

> Only Singh, Bankman-Fried and a few other top FTX and Alameda executives knew about the exemption in the code, according to three former executives briefed on the matter. A digital dashboard used by staff to track FTX customer assets and liabilities was programmed so it would not take into account that Alameda had withdrawn the client funds, according to two of the people and a screenshot of the portal that Reuters…

Really? I feel like intent would be really hard to prove. "Hey, due to the way our accounting works I need you to subtract X from our dashboard." "Ok boss." Are programmers expected to know finance law? If I build a program for a dairy farmer am I supposed to know the laws of the interstate dairy trade? I can't believe that would be the case.

Ignorance of the law is never an excuse if you are found to be breaking the law. So if you think what you are doing is possibly in violation of the law you better bone up or ask a lawyer for a statement on letterhead that what you are doing is ok.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#158
post #34
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I feel like intent would be really hard to prove. "Hey, due to the way our accounting works I need you to subtract X from our dashboard." "Ok boss." Are programmers expected to know finance law? If I build a program for a dairy farmer am I supposed to know the laws of the interstate dairy trade? I can't believe that would be the case.

> Are programmers expected to know finance law? Working on fintech and transaction rails? Probably. I had to know regulations when I worked in fintech. Plus, you don't have to know the law to be found guilty of breaking it. The engineers working on this are innocent until proven guilty, but you'd better believe all internal comms, meeting notes, and commit messages will be scrutinized. Someone had to ask for the syst…

> Plus, you don't have to know the law to be found guilty of breaking it.

Precisely, ignorance is never a valid defense.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real problem behind all these crypto companies is the people who make the money have no concept of what "integrity" is. You don't need integrity while "the line goes up". Integrity is only for when it goes down. Until recently, the line has been consistently going up. SBF was banking on it going up forever. If it had gone up forever, he would not have been caught! While the line goes up, integrity just eats int…

>> You don't need integrity while "the line goes up". Integrity is how you behave when no-one is watching.

That's a very nice quote.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#160
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Singh will definitely get prison time as well Remember Alamada wasn’t a normal customer. It was acting as a market maker/counterparty of last resort to many other FTX customers. In that case there could be situations where ‘normal customer liquidation rules’ shouldn’t apply - it can go in the red temporarily to enable others to trade (and FTX to make commission). From the facts in the article (which are obviously n…

I never understood why Alameda took risky bets when it could just make a bunch of cash off buy/ask spreads assuming trading volume was decent. Running the exchange they can front run any large trades and move the market.

You mean kind of like how the US market works now with PFOF?

And the fact that by far the largest market maker in the US is also a hedge fund (two different companies with the same owner(s), where have we seen that before?).

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