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A software change allowed FTX to use client money

reuters.com

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Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#131

Post by db48x »

edouard-harris wrote: post #124
helsinkiandrew wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Singh will definitely get prison time as well Remember Alamada wasn’t a normal customer. It was acting as a market maker/counterparty of last resort to many other FTX customers. In that case there could be situations where ‘normal customer liquidation rules’ shouldn’t apply - it can go in the red temporarily to enable others to trade (and FTX to make commission). From the facts in the article (which are obviously n…

> Remember Alamada wasn’t a normal customer. It was acting as a market maker/counterparty of last resort to many other FTX customers. In that case there could be situations where ‘normal customer liquidation rules’ shouldn’t apply This might be a reasonable argument in a vacuum, except that: > [SBF] told investors and prospective investors that FTX had top-notch, sophisticated automated risk measures in place to prot…

It’s potentially a defense for the engineer though, if he had nothing to do with the advertising. Of course it’s all just idle speculation; the real interesting stuff will come out in the trial, years upon years from now.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#132

Post by mavelikara »

totalZero wrote: post #80
andrewstuart wrote: post #75

The real problem behind all these crypto companies is the people who make the money have no concept of what "integrity" is. They aren't coming from a baseline assumption that their job is to protect and interests and the money of their clients. Traditional banks, for the most part, have DNA built around protecting customer interests and customer money. Crypto companies have none of that attitude - behind every one of…

It's not just crypto. The entire fintech space has an ideology that lines up far better with Silicon Valley than with Wall Street. The Wall Street mentality would dictate a very different course of action than the Silicon Valley mentality in many of the situations described in the cases brought by the DoJ and the SEC, and yet the Silicon Valley mentality seems to have been the guideline used by SBF/FTX -- perhaps bec…

> Silicon Valley is a world where "move fast and break things" is a central mantra, and sometimes those things that get broken are the rules.

And, Wall St is where this isn't the case?

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#133

Post by notch656a »

salawat wrote: post #122
deathanatos wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IME, it depends on your chain of command. I've literally been reprimanded in my career for asking questions. My boss at that time was crap. I didn't choose him. Asking questions can very likely get you fired. Also got reprimanded for disobeying an order at once; my boss — same one as above — would not take "no, we are in a regulated industry, and I cannot do that" for an answer. I ended up going behind his back, gett…

You want Engineer in your job title? Then you say no, and you damned well ask questions, and you damned well make sure to leave the moment they make it impossible for you to act ethically.

This should apply to anyone. IMO engineers aren't special. As a human you should try not to fuck over other people.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#134

Post by notyourwork »

geoduck14 wrote: post #125
steveBK123 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Jamie Dimon asked a developer at the bank "hey can you have Chase ATMs allow these 10 accounts that are in my name to withdraw unlimited funds?" everyone involved would be in jail. This is not dissimilar.

>If Jamie Dimon asked a developer at the bank "hey can you have Chase ATMs allow these 10 accounts that are in my name to withdraw unlimited funds?" everyone involved would be in jail. This isn't true I worked for a large bank. I managed data for their mortgages. We bought another bank and processed their mortgages with our systems. There were several thousand accounts that we called "friends of the " because they ha…

In english it means the terms are 40 years to repay the loan at a 2% rate. Not sure how that translates to never really due.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#135

Post by kaesar14 »

mavelikara wrote: post #132
totalZero wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just crypto. The entire fintech space has an ideology that lines up far better with Silicon Valley than with Wall Street. The Wall Street mentality would dictate a very different course of action than the Silicon Valley mentality in many of the situations described in the cases brought by the DoJ and the SEC, and yet the Silicon Valley mentality seems to have been the guideline used by SBF/FTX -- perhaps bec…

> Silicon Valley is a world where "move fast and break things" is a central mantra, and sometimes those things that get broken are the rules. And, Wall St is where this isn't the case?

It’s crazy to think Wall Street has never once moved fast and broken things, like the global economy, for instance.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#136

Post by vgatherps »

mavelikara wrote: post #132
totalZero wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just crypto. The entire fintech space has an ideology that lines up far better with Silicon Valley than with Wall Street. The Wall Street mentality would dictate a very different course of action than the Silicon Valley mentality in many of the situations described in the cases brought by the DoJ and the SEC, and yet the Silicon Valley mentality seems to have been the guideline used by SBF/FTX -- perhaps bec…

> Silicon Valley is a world where "move fast and break things" is a central mantra, and sometimes those things that get broken are the rules. And, Wall St is where this isn't the case?

I’ve worked at market making firms in US and there were exceptionally strict controls and regulations. Engineers had to be properly qualified to even touch certain parts of the codebase and it potentially came with legal ramifications.

Re: A software change allowed FTX to use client money

#137

Post by barbariangrunge »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #33
alar44 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I feel like intent would be really hard to prove. "Hey, due to the way our accounting works I need you to subtract X from our dashboard." "Ok boss." Are programmers expected to know finance law? If I build a program for a dairy farmer am I supposed to know the laws of the interstate dairy trade? I can't believe that would be the case.

Nishad Singh wasn't some low-level coder. He was FTX's Director of Engineering. > "Hey, due to the way our accounting works I need you to subtract X from our dashboard." That is not what happened here. The fact alone that very few people knew about Alameda's special treatment, and, importantly, deliberately conspired to keep that treatment secret is a pretty strong indicator that he knew it was wrong.

Director of engineering != product manager in charge of deciding what features to include. If somebody tells engineering, “we will not use this feature illegally,” then it’s the fault of the higher ups who are possibly (?) trying to scapegoat somebody to protect themselves
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