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The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]

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Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]

#451

Post by asveikau »

indigodaddy wrote: post #370

From https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/13/sam-bankman-fried-denied-bai... : “Bankman-Fried's parents were animated during the proceeding, at times laughing or putting their fingers in their ears, according to Coindesk.” … what in the world.. I guess they really think they are going to somehow get him out of this.. how do they not understand that this type of behavior is not in any way helpful to him?

I think being faced with this or having your kids faced with this probably elicits all kinds of stress responses and coping mechanisms.

I could totally see myself engaging in nervous laughter if one of my kids fucks up this badly. I could also see twisting my worldview to make my kids innocent in my own mind, as a form of denial, unconditional love for the kids, etc.

From press reports it seems possible those parents did a poor job raising him, that the apple didn't fall far from the tree, but I think also we shouldn't rush to judgement or draw conclusions where another explanation might suffice.

Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]

#452

Post by Panzer04 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #319
soyiuz wrote: post #174

I've seen a bunch of his interviews now and his message is pretty controlled, actually. It all boils down to: (a) I don't know, wasn't aware, and (b) I messed up / lost focus. These appearances seem to play a therapeutic (instead of legal or financial) role for SBF (bad idea, obviously). Yesterday (12/12) he was still talking about returning in a "senior executive role" to help in the bankruptcy. He is also convinced…

“If you attract customers and investors by saying that you have good risk management, and then you lose their money, and then you say ‘oh sorry we had bad risk management,’ that is not a defense against fraud charges! That is a confession!” https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-12-13/how-to...

Levine, as always, trotting out the bangers :)

Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]

#454

Post by pryelluw »

massysett wrote: post #395
pseingatl wrote: post #127

Can we discus recovery? The Madoff trustee was able to recover something like 90% of the Madoff Ponzi. Alameda and FTX's real estate purchases have value, as do their VC investments, purchases of bank stock, etc. In other words, it's not all gone. My understanding is that even some of the political contributions can be clawed back. FTX's purchases of IOU's (i.e., crypto) that declined in value are not likely to be re…

The problem is opportunity cost. People invested in Madoff to grow their money. So if I invest $100 in Madoff and ten years later they say “we recovered $90, congrats,” yeah that’s better than nothing. But if I had put that into a legitimate investment, maybe I’d have $180. Other folks got money out of Madoff during his scam years, and the trustee says “I’m taking that money back to pay back others.” So much of crypt…

Naive question here:

Wouldn’t you have to take into account due diligence when talking opportunity cost?

As in, someone who did not do their due diligence and had a higher risk tolerance would be expected to have a lower opportunity cost. In simple words, likely to lose money on this deal but willing due to the high return chance.

Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]

#456

Post by joeblubaugh »

Aunche wrote: post #409
indigodaddy wrote: post #370

From https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/13/sam-bankman-fried-denied-bai... : “Bankman-Fried's parents were animated during the proceeding, at times laughing or putting their fingers in their ears, according to Coindesk.” … what in the world.. I guess they really think they are going to somehow get him out of this.. how do they not understand that this type of behavior is not in any way helpful to him?

This is mainstream media being sensationalist per usual. This is what the original Coindesk article wrote. "They appeared to oscillate between dejection and defiance, at times holding their heads in their hands and clasping their hands. Bankman-Fried’s mother audibly laughed several times when her son was referred to as a “fugitive” and his father occasionally put his fingers in his ears as if to drown out the sound…

So you’re saying that the facts in the sentence are true

Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]

#457

Post by tjmc »

makestuff wrote: post #152
VectorLock wrote: post #137

I'm curious what kind of plea deal Caroline Elison got.

I'm guessing a, you're still going to prison, but it will be for a few years instead of potentially your entire life.

Wasn't Alameda the entity responsible for losing most of the money? Seems wrong that you could get less than a double digit sentance for that - even if you roll over for the prosecution.

Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]

#458

Post by TacticalCoder »

pseingatl wrote: post #127

Can we discus recovery? The Madoff trustee was able to recover something like 90% of the Madoff Ponzi. Alameda and FTX's real estate purchases have value, as do their VC investments, purchases of bank stock, etc. In other words, it's not all gone. My understanding is that even some of the political contributions can be clawed back. FTX's purchases of IOU's (i.e., crypto) that declined in value are not likely to be re…

> How much really was lost?

How much was really "lost"?

Now that SBF is charged on six counts of conspiracy, it's safe to say it's safe to not believe anything that person says. I don't believe the "leveraged trades gone wrong" angle.

I do believe there's a conspiracy. That's what several, including @Bitfinex'ed (a Twitter user exposing the tether fraud) and Marc Cohodes, said years and months before SBF was exposed for the ponzi boy he was.

They don't believe the fraud only stops at SBF / Caroline Ellison.

How much is going to be found depends on how far they investigate on the conspiracy.

A good place to start looking for a conspiracy to defraud is this: FTX's top lawyer, Dan Friedberg, happened to be colleague with Bitfinex's top lawyer. Indeed, they both worked at a company which defrauded online poker players by cheating on them (using a "god mode" on the server software they were offering).

I'd say that's a good start for the "conspiracy" angle: go look at Dan Friedberg's implication in the scheme. And at its relation with his former colleague now at Bitfinex. And seen that the Panamera papers exposed that Bitfinex/iFinex/tether/Deltec were all one and the same gang of criminals, and seen that it's a fact that Moonstone bank, which SBF bought in the US from Deltec's owner (at least partially) maybe, just maybe...

That it's time to look into the tether fraud to find the billions?

Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]

#459

Post by tmtvl »

xdavidliu wrote: post #225
xivzgrev wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But you probably know a few basics about bridges. That’s the overarching point - a basic lawyer thing is if you are ever in trouble, don’t talk to anyone: cops, media, etc. so it’s curious why he decided to anyway.

I think you meant to say "That’s the overarching pont".

Now that pun is going too far.

Re: The United States of America vs. Samuel Bankman-Fried Indictment [pdf]

#460

Post by humanizersequel »

joeblubaugh wrote: post #455

Is there going to be any reckoning for the VCs who poured money into this ridiculous business? I don’t see how you respect Sequoia’s judgement after this.

>I don’t see how you respect Sequoia’s judgement after this.

Me neither, sounds like that's the reckoning.

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