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Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

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Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#251

Post by lazyasciiart »

baby wrote: post #186
indymike wrote: post #78

I've been in the job board / HR Tech space for a while, and every time I see a state pass a law requiring advertising the salary range, I'm reminded of a few facts: * Showing your salary range as long as it is at market wage or higher delivers 14% more applicants. It is a good idea to show salary on job ads. * If you don't give the job board a salary range, they will use tools like salary.com or their own tools to sh…

no opinion about these laws but: > * Showing your salary range as long as it is at market wage or higher delivers 14% more applicants. It is a good idea to show salary on job ads. might not be what you want. You might want the best engineers who you will have to make exceptions for in their TC

It's a range. If you are hoping to hire someone outside that range, you're lying about your range. If you're worried about the 1% chance you'll end up hiring outside that range, you probably need to just get over it.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#252

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

ido wrote: post #187
next_xibalba wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, to me, is a really good signal of how well run a company is. After all, a company is merely a collection of people on whom its outcomes are entirely dependent. Thus, the single most important function a company can perform is hiring. If a company fails to recognize this or just does it incompetently, its probably a crappy company. Thus, slow responses == crappy company.

I would postulate the single most important thing a company can do is make money. Hiring is also important though.

"Making money" is the result of doing everything else well.

It's not difficult to find companies that cut costs in order to increase profits only for it to backfire and result in less money or even bankruptcy.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#253

Post by lazyasciiart »

xyzelement wrote: post #225
robomartin wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you advertise a job respond to applicants quickly A friend of mine is superbly qualified for a job posted by Apple. She applied for this job expecting a reasonably quick reply. What I mean by "superbly qualified" is that she is a recognized expert in the domain, has conducted seminars attended by hundreds of engineers and business people and, back in the day, was actually invited by Steve Jobs to come to Cuperti…

I feel for your friend but this sounds naive. Public job postings get hundreds or thousands of applications, most of which are terrible and need to be filtered out. Expecting an immediate response on one is not reasonable. If your friend is such an industry insider, it's surprising she didn't have a network that could short circuit this process for her. In general, my experience that if you are cold-applying for a jo…

Expecting a response to your job application in less than a month sounds naive?

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#254

Post by braingenious »

dang wrote: post #233
1attice wrote: post #227

Conflict-of-interest evident in the HN re-title-fication of this post. Recall that making something less salacious when you are the subject is quite different from toning down clickbait headlines when you're wearing your neutral-editorial hat. Original title was 'Why are some YC companies breaking the law?' And frankly, that's a great question. Admittedly not-so-great is the absence of any specific example on the OP,…

I changed the title as part of moderating this thread less than we normally would. We moderate HN threads less, not more, when YC or YC startups are part of the story—this has been established practice since the beginning: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... . The way we'd normally moderate a thread like this is by downweighting it as a generic riler-upper ( https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRan…

That was a lot of words.

The “minimum” reasonable thing to do would have been to leave the thread alone if it is in fact your policy to moderate YC threads less than usual.

Can you point to some non-YC posts that you have explicitly removed references to breaking the law from?

It is, in fact, breaking the law to list NYC jobs without providing salary range in the same way that it is breaking the law to jaywalk or piss on the subway. Do you find references to those laws to be salacious and sensational?

It was a mundane observation that these companies were breaking the law in the same way that it is a mundane observation that editing a title to obscure that gives the impression that it was not motivated by some sort of stoic adherence to some objective ideal.

Was “TikTok is an illegal fork of OBS” a sensational, salacious title?

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#255

Post by lazyasciiart »

throwaway98797 wrote: post #239
Kalium wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK. Let's take it as read that ranges discourage the uncertain and nervous. How should companies go about posting ads that treats those people compassionately and puts them on an event footing with confident people? Preferably while not denying people who would like to see it useful information?

my point was that ranges can hurt maybe a solution is to have a website that had to post a range but also require them to post it on another site where ranges are not allowed so those that want to see jobs and not be distracted by $ can do so

Write a greasemonkey script. Or pay someone to do it for you. Reducing the amount of information available in a job posting is easily solvable client-side, especially since I disagree with you about the overall negative effect.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#256

Post by [deleted] »

dang wrote: post #250
eduction wrote: post #199

YC’s HN altered the submission in a way that erases the previously stated fact that this behavior is a violation of NYC law, which leaves the discussion unresponsive to the question and also risks the appearance of trying to hide the illegal behavior. There were probably other reasons behind the change but to preserve the meaning of the post something about this being a possible/likely violation of nyc law should IMO…

I explained the title change here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33974170 . I think you make a good point though, so I've edited it again. For those curious, the originally submitted title was " Ask HN: Why are YC companies breaking hiring laws? " and the first edit was " Ask HN: Why are YC companies hiring in NYC not posting their salary range? I've just edited it a second time, to " Ask HN: Why are YC compan…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#257

Post by wyldfire »

dang wrote: post #250
eduction wrote: post #199

YC’s HN altered the submission in a way that erases the previously stated fact that this behavior is a violation of NYC law, which leaves the discussion unresponsive to the question and also risks the appearance of trying to hide the illegal behavior. There were probably other reasons behind the change but to preserve the meaning of the post something about this being a possible/likely violation of nyc law should IMO…

I explained the title change here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33974170 . I think you make a good point though, so I've edited it again. For those curious, the originally submitted title was " Ask HN: Why are YC companies breaking hiring laws? " and the first edit was " Ask HN: Why are YC companies hiring in NYC not posting their salary range? I've just edited it a second time, to " Ask HN: Why are YC compan…

> "Ask HN: Why are YC companies in NYC posting their salary range, as law requires?"

Is that the right polarity? I think the question was/should be why "aren't" they posting it. Right? Or do I totally misunderstand?

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#258

Post by swiftcoder »

yamtaddle wrote: post #97
indymike wrote: post #78

I've been in the job board / HR Tech space for a while, and every time I see a state pass a law requiring advertising the salary range, I'm reminded of a few facts: * Showing your salary range as long as it is at market wage or higher delivers 14% more applicants. It is a good idea to show salary on job ads. * If you don't give the job board a salary range, they will use tools like salary.com or their own tools to sh…

> * If you advertise a job respond to applicants quickly - as in within minutes of the application. A single day of delay in response causes 28% of candidates to become unresponsive to recruiters (this is from our company's research). It drops to 51% become unresponsive 48 hours later. My experience with being hired at non-FAANG places over a career of more than two decades is that I'm usually through a process and h…

Even FAANGs can pull this off. Amazon was routinely hiring folks in single-day loop with offer letter the following morning, back when I joined.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#259

Post by hoosieree »

yamtaddle wrote: post #97
indymike wrote: post #78

I've been in the job board / HR Tech space for a while, and every time I see a state pass a law requiring advertising the salary range, I'm reminded of a few facts: * Showing your salary range as long as it is at market wage or higher delivers 14% more applicants. It is a good idea to show salary on job ads. * If you don't give the job board a salary range, they will use tools like salary.com or their own tools to sh…

> * If you advertise a job respond to applicants quickly - as in within minutes of the application. A single day of delay in response causes 28% of candidates to become unresponsive to recruiters (this is from our company's research). It drops to 51% become unresponsive 48 hours later. My experience with being hired at non-FAANG places over a career of more than two decades is that I'm usually through a process and h…

By the time a previous employer got around to making an offer, I had already interviewed and accepted a different job and been working there for 2 months. Still, I took the job for the 1.5x salary increase and better benefits.
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