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Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

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191–200 of 364 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#191

I've been in the job board / HR Tech space for a while, and every time I see a state pass a law requiring advertising the salary range, I'm reminded of a few facts: * Showing your salary range as long as it is at market wage or higher delivers 14% more applicants. It is a good idea to show salary on job ads. * If you don't give the job board a salary range, they will use tools like salary.com or their own tools to sh…

> A single day of delay in response causes 28% of candidates to become unresponsive to recruiters (this is from our company's research). It drops to 51% become unresponsive 48 hours later. I've noticed my interest in a job tends to drop consistently the longer it takes for a response. This isn't surprising at all. I don't think it's because we're fickle, it's more that right when you apply you can picture what it mig…

Definitely noticed this effect when applying now too.

Additionally a responsive and clearly communicating company is always a good sign that they really need to fill the role. It is always a plus if I go from hiring manager/recruiter straight upper management interviews in a matter of days.

Additionally the quicker the employer response the more likely the applicant is mentally primed for the responder and does not yet have their mental/time bandwidth taken by competitors.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are some comments in here that verge on assuming bad faith on the part of the companies involved Not disclosing pay is illegal in three states in the US, and has the practical effect of reducing the number of applicants to the advertised job by 14%, so it's self-harming for the employer anyway. Bonus: a lot of job boards will just plug an "estimated salary" in for you to max their CTR and revenue on syndicatio…

Are the companies indeed inflicting self harm? They might get less applications that way, but posting salary ranges for new employees has other downsides - e.g. it might tilt existing employees. Another downside is that it's easy to scrap and collect this data and companies might not like candidates or employees easily accessing historical data. Sharing salary range basically reduces the knowledge advantage of a comp…

>and existing employees.

Oh wow, true. Now I'll know exactly when to negotiate a raise or leave.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the companies indeed inflicting self harm? They might get less applications that way, but posting salary ranges for new employees has other downsides - e.g. it might tilt existing employees. Another downside is that it's easy to scrap and collect this data and companies might not like candidates or employees easily accessing historical data. Sharing salary range basically reduces the knowledge advantage of a comp…

> Are the companies indeed inflicting self harm? They are spending 14% more on recruitment advertising than they would have to if they just put a range in the salary box. So, yes, financial self harm. 14% is substantial for many companies. > ther downsides - e.g. it might tilt existing employees. People have access to wage data and job boards in their pocket. If they answer that unknown caller, it's as likely to be a…

> They are spending 14% more on recruitment advertising

Oh boy, huge assumptions there, so bad that I would associate that thinking with HR recruiters. What matters is what selects/filters for desirable employees. Getting 14% more applicants is a terrible metric to be measuring - https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law which is obvious since one can increase applications by advertising in irrelevant places to get more irrelevant applicants.

Alternatively 14% more could be extremely important, if a lack of salary indication filtered for bad candidates, and salary indication brought in good candidates.

> A single day of delay in response causes 28% of candidates to become unresponsive to recruiters (this is from our company's research). It drops to 51% become unresponsive 48 hours later. [your top level comment].

That’s an interesting metric, since anecdotally the best candidates get snapped up extremely quickly.

It is obviously very difficult to find good factual correlations: a lack of good data just produces opinions.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I search for job listings for Boulder, CO or Colorado, US on Walgreens' website, I get zero results. It did pop up with New York City job listings, like this one: https://jobs.walgreens.com/en/job/new-york/duane-reade-shift... Which do not list the pay range, but have tiny text at the bottom that says >To see the salary range for this position please click here: Pay Transparency Duane Reade Shift Leader . https://…

Check the site "walgreens.jobs", the listings are still there. Here's a photo I took of the posting: https://i.imgur.com/jSl1Rjk.png

Oh, something must be broken with their search, or my Safari content blocker is blocking something which is breaking the search.

I found the a job listing in boulder here, which has the same pay range link as above:

https://jobs.walgreens.com/en/job/boulder/pharmacy-technicia...

But yes, per CO law, the job posting you took a picture of should also state the same pay range and benefit info (page 4).

https://cdle.colorado.gov/sites/cdle/files/7%20CCR%201103-13...

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#195
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, to me, is a really good signal of how well run a company is. After all, a company is merely a collection of people on whom its outcomes are entirely dependent. Thus, the single most important function a company can perform is hiring. If a company fails to recognize this or just does it incompetently, its probably a crappy company. Thus, slow responses == crappy company.

I would postulate the single most important thing a company can do is make money. Hiring is also important though.

Making money is a downstream output of the activities of your people. So, if making money is your goal, the most important thing you can do to reach your goal is to hire the right people.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * If you advertise a job respond to applicants quickly - as in within minutes of the application. A single day of delay in response causes 28% of candidates to become unresponsive to recruiters (this is from our company's research). It drops to 51% become unresponsive 48 hours later. My experience with being hired at non-FAANG places over a career of more than two decades is that I'm usually through a process and h…

I routinely hire developers in 24 hours from initial contact. It's fun watching them get random recruiter calls two or three weeks later. "I'm not interested, I STARTED my new job three weeks ago. No, I'm not willing to leave for that. Have a nice day." Except the "Have a nice day" part is usually less friendly and polite.

I started a new job in April. The hiring process was quite slow and disorganized, but included in that were three separate "interviews" with my now-manager.

I thought this was great - I felt like I really understood who I'd be working for and what I was getting into. And now that I've joined I understand that he was simply doing the same thing: getting to know me; making sure I wasn't someone good at technical interviews but with misaligned values. Hiring the wrong person can be very expensive.

I wish the whole process had taken 2 weeks rather than 6, but I'd view an offer in 24h as a huge red flag.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#197
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, to me, is a really good signal of how well run a company is. After all, a company is merely a collection of people on whom its outcomes are entirely dependent. Thus, the single most important function a company can perform is hiring. If a company fails to recognize this or just does it incompetently, its probably a crappy company. Thus, slow responses == crappy company.

I would postulate the single most important thing a company can do is make money. Hiring is also important though.

Making money at all costs usually implies a shitty culture that I personally seek to avoid.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#198
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would postulate the single most important thing a company can do is make money. Hiring is also important though.

Making money at all costs usually implies a shitty culture that I personally seek to avoid.

Maybe.

But whatever the goal of your organization, achieving that goal is going to depend on the people you hire.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#199
YC’s HN altered the submission in a way that erases the previously stated fact that this behavior is a violation of NYC law, which leaves the discussion unresponsive to the question and also risks the appearance of trying to hide the illegal behavior.

There were probably other reasons behind the change but to preserve the meaning of the post something about this being a possible/likely violation of nyc law should IMO be added back to the post.

Re: Ask HN: Why are some YC startups not posting salary ranges when law requires it?

#200
I assume this doesn't apply to most YC companies, but the smallest companies (with fewer than four employees) are exempted from the law: https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/cchr/downloads/pdf/publications/...

It's nice that there's a carveout for small companies, who don't need more friction as they're trying to get off the ground.

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