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Binance freezes withdrawals of stablecoin USDC as investors pull $2B

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Re: Binance freezes withdrawals of stablecoin USDC as investors pull $2B

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to make excuses for any of these companies. I'm just saying, in the abstract, there are lots of reasons why an end user would want a stablecoin besides "avoiding regulations". Even if it weren't pegged to a national currency, there is value in having a digital currency that limits its volatility. Pegging to another currency is a shortcut for doing that w/o needing decentralized monetary policy.

Basically these people are trying to get the benefit of digital currencies without the downside of volatility. Somebody else will have to take the volatility risk. This is easy to do when the crypto currencies are going up in value, and almost impossible to do on the downside.

> almost impossible to do on the downside

And yet most stable coins have maintained their peg for years now, despite many of them having gone through 2 large bear markets. If 80%-90% down and still pegged doesn't disprove "impossible to do on the downside" I don't know what could.

Clarification: I do think Tether is not fully backed and is likely to depeg some day, but the assertion that it's "impossible to do on the downside" is clearly not true even for Tether. And it's very clearly not impossible to keep a peg if the peg is fully backed, which may be the case for some coins (without naming specifics). DAI, backed by verifiable collateral, has also done extremely well through 2 bear markets.

Re: Binance freezes withdrawals of stablecoin USDC as investors pull $2B

#192

> The world's biggest crypto exchange will freeze all withdrawals of USD Coin while it conducts a "token swap" to boost its holdings of the dollar-pegged cryptocurrency, the crypto group's CEO Changpeng Zhao said Tuesday It's worth noting that USDC is not even a token controlled by Binance. It's controlled and issued by Circle. So effectively, Binance is refusing to honor its commitment to depositors to give them the…

> So effectively, Binance is refusing to honor its commitment to depositors to give them their money on demand. That's called a "default." What? So if I go into the bank at 4 AM and ask to withdraw $100,000, and they respond, "Sure, we'll need a few hours to get those funds together," the bank has defaulted?

Cash withdrawls have a ohysical aspect, cash. In the case of Binance, there is no such aspect. Obviously, banks have limits around cash withdrawls not the least due to limited amount of cash at hand at a given sight. Banks will happily allow you to wire transfer money wherever you want, since this is only a virtuap things and banks are required to have enough liquidity to serve those requests.

Crypto is no like cash.

Re: Binance freezes withdrawals of stablecoin USDC as investors pull $2B

#193

> The world's biggest crypto exchange will freeze all withdrawals of USD Coin while it conducts a "token swap" to boost its holdings of the dollar-pegged cryptocurrency, the crypto group's CEO Changpeng Zhao said Tuesday It's worth noting that USDC is not even a token controlled by Binance. It's controlled and issued by Circle. So effectively, Binance is refusing to honor its commitment to depositors to give them the…

> You "need" a stable coin because you're trying to have your cake and eat it too: US dollar-like liquidity and value preservation without US dollar financial regulation.

That is not at all why people need/want USDC. People want stable coins because banks are all too happy refusing/blocking/reversing transactions to/from cryptocurrencies exchanges.

They hypocrisy of both banks and the states on this one is amazing: "it's all a ponzi" / "it's all criminal money" / "only fraustres use cryptocurrencies"

But then...

"Please pay your due taxes made on crypto".

FWIW France, at least, took a less dumb approach than many on the subject: conversions to/from crypto and stablecoins aren't a taxable event. It's only if you manage to cash out (and that's a gigantic "if") to actual EUR that taxes to the state are due. It solves at least the problem where people legally need to pay taxes but concretely cannot get money out of the crypto exchanges.

Sending from, say, Coinbase to a bank for tiny amount is relatively easy. But I'm atm helping someone "cash out" a 7 digits sum in France and it's hard. Extremely hard. It's near impossible actually to get one bank to approve the withdrawal from Coinbase. Saying: "I entered Bitcoin in 2016 and ETH when it was at 50 cents" ain't sufficient. They don't seem to understand that the KYC/AML is done to catch drug and arms dealers, organs traffickers, and pedophiles selling CSAM.

That's why there's KYC/AML right? To catch these guys.

But a 35 years old mom who made bank on crypto? That's no pedophile. No arm dealer. No drug dealer. And yet it's not clear if she'll ever be able to cash out.

That's why people are using USDC. Credit cards withdrawing from your USDC? Bring it on. Coinbase giving x% annual return on your return, please, keep it coming (btw even in France taxes are due on these annual yield). There's a shop here selling high-end second hand watches (you know, the kind of watches worth more used than new) that accepts crypto: maybe a way to get something out of your crypto.

Now I don't know if the short term US treasuries, whose numbers are all published, backing the USDC all actually exist and are really held at BNY Melon. Maybe it's all a scam. Maybe Coinbase shall rug pull too. Maybe BNY Melon shall rug pull.

For all I know, heck, maybe Uncle Sam himself is going to rug pull on the treasuries backing the USDC (I shouldn't give these people ideas but they maybe already fancied the idea anyway: "crypto are only scams, we're defaulting on the US treasuries backing stable coins"... and many idiots would applaude).

But USDC still looks, to me, more legit than USDT / Binance USD / etc.

That's why most people are using USDC: it's the least smelly of them all and the banks do no let people easily sell their crypto for real USD / EUR.

Meanwhile, as I mentioned, the state wants its taxes on crypto gains.

It's the state and the state lovers who want to have their cake and eat it too: they want to prevent people from cashing out their crypto "because pedophiles and criminals" but still want their taxes made on crypto "gains".

That's why people are using stable coins.

If people were actually free to use their money, free to do wire transfer to/from Coinbase at will, there wouldn't be that much need for stable coins.

But people aren't free to use their money as they want.

Re: Binance freezes withdrawals of stablecoin USDC as investors pull $2B

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not really any less of a dollar than any other dollar is. All of our digital dollars are just bank liabilities. Circle and Tether are just banks with dollar liabilities. Their liabilities can be transferred on crypto networks rather than traditional bank wires.

> Circle and Tether are just banks with dollar liabilities. But no regulatory oversight, and no chance for the common folk to prosecute or get their money back if they default. I am one of the resident crypto apologists here on HN, but there is no way that we should even try to accept what the big exchanges are doing. The whole point of crypto is to have systems that do not depend on "too big to fail" institutions, w…

Tether has no meaningful regulatory oversight. Circle has money transmitter licenses in most US states, some of which cover them as a virtual asset service provider, and require specific conditions around the way that they store customer funds: https://www.circle.com/en/legal/usdc-terms

I'm not claiming this is perfect, but it's pretty different.

Re: Binance freezes withdrawals of stablecoin USDC as investors pull $2B

#195
A few thoughts from someone who has been around crypto for years:

1. Do not trust any centralized exchange. Hold your own tokens using a secure hardware wallet. Back up your seed phrase securely. This is not really that hard anymore IMO.

2. Let me repeat that, but more emphatically... Centralized exchanges are not to be trusted. They are not "crypto". They are unregulated banks operated by shady characters. Use them as on- and off-ramps from fiat, but get your tokens into a cold wallet ASAP. If you leave your money in them, they _will_ rug-pull you at some point.

3. Crypto token prices are primarily driven by speculation. Do not expect stability. Do not expect a token's price to appreciate just because the project is technically interesting, or solving a real need. Instead, expect prices to fluctuate wildly, mostly in correlation to the same macroeconomic events that impact stocks, with an even higher risk.

4. Not all stablecoins are created equally. Run away from algorithmic stablecoins IMO. Also avoid USDT and any other coins where proof of reserves seem suspicious. I personally prefer USDC. If you _must_ invest in an algo coin, look at DAI, but keep in mind that it is very exposed to USDC as well.

5. USD-pegged stablecoins can all be blacklisted and paused. If they want to do business in dollars, their makers have to accept some degree of US.gov regulation. Do not expect to hold and spend your USDC if the US government wants to stop you.

6. Do your own research, damnit. This is still early days for DeFi and digital assets, and scams are thick on the ground. Do not trust what random internet commentators say, and keep your wits about you.

7. Don't lose hope. While 95% of the economic activity in the space is either scams, fraud, or speculation, the remaining 5% consists of people trying to solve real problems that are not adequately addressed by offline cash and existing payment networks. I know HN loves to point out that crypto is a solution looking for a problem, but the truth is that the current system is not perfect, and crypto brings some much needed transparency and decentralization to the world. Crypto winter is in some ways good for this, as it will disproportionately drive away the scammers and "number go up" crowd, while the real teams will keep building.

Edit, for some specifics of my stack: I use a Ledger Nano X hardware wallet, with Ledger Live for management, Electrum (for Bitcoin), Keplr (for Cosmos ecosystem), and MetaMask (for Ethereum and other Solidity networks). I have a separate Chrome profile that has the latter two extensions installed, and only use it for DeFi crypto things. The only CeFi exchange I use is Coinbase, and I keep my balance there near $0 unless I anticipate a trade within the next 30 days. None of this is financial advice; I'm just a dude on the internet.

Re: Binance freezes withdrawals of stablecoin USDC as investors pull $2B

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BUSD is not clown money or created by Binance. It is the most highly regulated financial instrument in crypto, issued by Paxos New York, tightly regulated by NYDFS, backed 1:1 and regularly audited. https://paxos.com/busd/

Let me add: Only BUSD on Ethereum (ERC-20) is issued by Paxos. The BUSD on the BNB Chain (BEP-20) is not affiliated with Paxos and not regulated by NYDFS. Quoting Paxos: "BUSD is issued by Paxos on the Ethereum blockchain and regulated by the New York Department of Financial Services. Separately, Binance wraps BUSD and issues separate tokens (known as Binance-Peg BUSD) on several blockchains, including BNB Smart Chai…

Yes, but I believe that this "wrapping" should be visible on chain. In the sense that there should be a 1:1 mapping between "real" BUSD locked on Ethereum and the number of pegged BUSD on other chains, and that the accounting can be verified in real time. But I haven't verified.

Re: Binance freezes withdrawals of stablecoin USDC as investors pull $2B

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it will eventually because the FED turned off the fractional reserve requirements. On March 15th, the Fed lowered the fractional reserve requirement to 0%. Yet, since that day banks have been hoarding cash like never before. pic.twitter.com/jpYF4Ypzjq — Mati Greenspan (tweets ≠ financial advice) (@MatiGreenspan) April 13, 2020 So, a bank can lend out what ever it wants. This is why inflation is high all over the…

Reserve requirements aren’t relevant anymore because capital requirements have largely taken their place. Capital requirements are not zero.

Furthermore, capital requirements are better than reserve requirements for us, the taxpayer, because we’re not paying interest on those reserves.

Re: Binance freezes withdrawals of stablecoin USDC as investors pull $2B

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's a nonsensical word that was only used by people to wave away obvious and legitimate criticisms. You don't see analysts reports in finance being called FUD, even when they are critical. That's because in the real world, people deal with and/or respond to criticism. In the crypto fantasy world, all of that is resolved just by calling it "fud".

Thanks for the deeper explanation and higher quality comment. What other term would you use then?

> What other term would you use then?

An argument? Crypto is facing a crisis moment. An "exchange" which has never been audited and won't say where it is, legally or physically, has halted redemptions. That prompts legitimate questions as to their liquidity. Dismissing any criticism as FUD short circuits asking why we should believe their liquidity is adequate.

Re: Binance freezes withdrawals of stablecoin USDC as investors pull $2B

#199
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let's imagine that Binance has $4B of USD customer liabilities backed by $2B of USDC and $2B of BUSD. Fully solvent and fully liquid. Then customers try to withdraw $3B of USDC which Binance does not have. Binance would be happy to give you BUSD but for whatever reason customers specifically want USDC. (I am absolutely convinced that Binance is evil but this specific situation does not appear particularly bad.)

So, they need to find gullible 3rd parties that accept to give them hard cash (USD) in exchange for their in house created clown money (BUSD), and then use this hard cash to go to the market and buy USDC. How is this different from FTX padding their balance sheet with billions of their own made up clown money? Crypto is ponzies all the way down.

In the hypothetical situation, both the BUSD and USDC are fully backed by USD. However, from an external observer's perspective, it is indistinguishable from the case where $1-2B USD is stuffed in a mattress in a country without extradition treaties.

(Which is why regulated financial institutions are externally audited and stuff.)

Re: Binance freezes withdrawals of stablecoin USDC as investors pull $2B

#200
Fun Fact - Binance is technically not headquartered in any country in the world. Originally they were based out of China, then when China banned crypto trading they moved to Japan for around a year, then got in trouble with the regulators there, left, and were trying to strike a deal with the Malta government to incorporate there, but it fell through. CZ has been saying for over a year that they will announce their new HQ location soon, but never has. They have registered subsidiaries in a few countries but at the corporate holding company level their HQ is essentially whatever hotel CZ and his laptop happen to be staying at this week.
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