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New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

bbc.com

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Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#61
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> prohibition has always been a questionable idea Any data on it having counter effect on the actual consumption and prevelance? I believe are the negatives were secondary but it was effective in primary goals.

When the US raised the drinking age from 18 to 21, binge drinking in college skyrocketed. Alcohol producers are now some of the staunchest defenders of our current drinking age.

[deleted]

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#62
post #10

Why do they think this won't increase the allure of cigarettes in general? Feels like prohibition has always been a questionable idea, regardless of what its target is, and it has pretty much never worked as expected. It's especially awkward given that people's interest in tobacco has already fallen to new lows without it (the article suggests only 8% of the adult population smokes now), so it feels like it could be…

Prohibition has worked for a very long time to control the widespread use of many materials, chemicals, and practices (ie building codes) across the world. Alcohol is relatively simple to create and store, and to hide consumption. Alcohol is effective at almost any quality, that doesn't immediately kill you. Cigarettes are a very different beast from alcohol. Unlike marijuana, given the data on second-hand smoke, many people would be eager to report use of cigarettes wherever it was found. Growing the tobacco is another big issue for producers. I don't believe there's a compelling set of reasons indicating cigarette prohibition would be ineffective.

In 2 generations, I'm not sure why anyone would be making cigarettes...when they could make alcohol easier.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#63

Why stop there, why not ban alcohol and sugar as well? But don't touch my coffee - I need that. I'm not totally against government regulating vice, I do wish it was done at a local level so that in the spirit of federalization we can see what works and what doesn't in small experiments before other states would voluntarily adopt it. NZ is a small state so not too many people will be impacted. I do think in an environ…

>> Canadian style widely encouraged assisted suicide model Canadian here; we're pretty much the polar opposite of our southern neighbours and I'd argue both of us are too extreme in our approach to health care, but I don't think you can accurately argue we have a "widely encouraged" model for ending your own life; except maybe compared to some states where life starts at ejaculation. There's a big difference between…

This man was encouraged to seek death by staff: https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/health/chronically-ill-man-rel...

We see this type of abuse everywhere it is legalized.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#64

Why stop there, why not ban alcohol and sugar as well? But don't touch my coffee - I need that. I'm not totally against government regulating vice, I do wish it was done at a local level so that in the spirit of federalization we can see what works and what doesn't in small experiments before other states would voluntarily adopt it. NZ is a small state so not too many people will be impacted. I do think in an environ…

>> Canadian style widely encouraged assisted suicide model Canadian here; we're pretty much the polar opposite of our southern neighbours and I'd argue both of us are too extreme in our approach to health care, but I don't think you can accurately argue we have a "widely encouraged" model for ending your own life; except maybe compared to some states where life starts at ejaculation. There's a big difference between…

It is indeed encouraged, I'm somewhat disabled with chronic fatigue, a condition many institutions don't even believe exists. So I'm sensitive to what people like me go through. I'm fortunate that I can pay my own way but others I know who rely on government assistance have privately relayed to me that they have been personally encouraged to look into MAiD. The "maybe you're faking it" has morphed into "maybe your life just isn't worth living, and we're still going to deny you disability... so think about it."

Personally I'd love for more research into ME/CFS and Long Covid but I'm pretty sure it'll get pushed into the too hard basket and MAiD will be over used as the easy solution.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#65

What are they going to provide as an alternative to nicotine? People start using it for a reason

Does anyone actually start smoking because they need nicotine? I've never heard that. It's always been peer pressure and only then do they get dependent on the nicotine.

Nicotine is a mild stimulant and we have practically built a society in which stimulant use is nearly essential (see caffeine for example)

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#67

What are they going to provide as an alternative to nicotine? People start using it for a reason

Does anyone actually start smoking because they need nicotine? I've never heard that. It's always been peer pressure and only then do they get dependent on the nicotine.

Nicotine self medicates for a bunch of reasons. It may even be beneficial for certain neurodegenerative conditions. While the answer is, let people use "real" medicines, or safer forms, remember people themselves know all the reasons why something like a cigarette is the best choice for them personally, much better than some overall one-size-fits-all prohibition for everyone. I'm pretty sick of some people trying to control others. If you don't like smoking don't smoke. If you fear the health consequences, don't smoke, even warn others. But who are you to control what others do with their bodies? (enter public healthcare - which is why socialised anything is incompatible with individual liberty)

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#68

What are they going to provide as an alternative to nicotine? People start using it for a reason

Does anyone actually start smoking because they need nicotine? I've never heard that. It's always been peer pressure and only then do they get dependent on the nicotine.

Have you ever worked in a high-stress physical labor job?

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone actually start smoking because they need nicotine? I've never heard that. It's always been peer pressure and only then do they get dependent on the nicotine.

Good point. What are they going to do to make me look cool then? Vaping (especially in cooler weather) looks ridiculous.

I recently started smoking again because of I've been under a lot of stress, and I can tell you, I'm already feeling like the Marlboro cowboy again.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#70

How generous of the grown ups to ban things for other people but not yourself. Like it's objectively a good thing but it seems so silly and immature to me. How good could society be by now if we could get every generation to pass restrictions on the vices of the next generation only, I suppose. Edit: I know talking about down voting is discouraged, but since I'm being downvoted, why not go further? Alcohol is also ob…

It’s absurdly addictive. And as I understand it smoking as we know it has more to do with marketing and the intentional suppression of research indicating serious harm than anything else. Hell, I might liken it to generational trauma. I’m not sure of the specifics. Does the law prevent you from growing and curing your own tobacco? There might be something important there - I don’t think folks would make their own cig…

Many countries in the world (like AUS and India) also prohibit tobacco growing. It's hard to do in the U.S. because it is a native species--literally, like cannabis, a weed.
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