New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations • Hacker News Board

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#41

Post by cjbgkagh » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 5:49 PM UTC

Why stop there, why not ban alcohol and sugar as well? But don't touch my coffee - I need that.

I'm not totally against government regulating vice, I do wish it was done at a local level so that in the spirit of federalization we can see what works and what doesn't in small experiments before other states would voluntarily adopt it. NZ is a small state so not too many people will be impacted.

I do think in an environment where the government is responsible for health outcomes it makes sense to pass mitigating regulation to minimize the costs of health outcomes. Though I do worry we may end up with mandatory exercise and a Canadian style widely encouraged assisted suicide model.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#42

Post by FpUser » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 5:51 PM UTC

jmclnx wrote: post #19

thatguy0900 wrote: post #3

How generous of the grown ups to ban things for other people but not yourself. Like it's objectively a good thing but it seems so silly and immature to me. How good could society be by now if we could get every generation to pass restrictions on the vices of the next generation only, I suppose. Edit: I know talking about down voting is discouraged, but since I'm being downvoted, why not go further? Alcohol is also ob…

> Alcohol is also objectively bad, why not implement this for alchohol? Well we both know that will never happen. But yes, alcohol is harmful but I think smoking is even more so. If Cost is NZ only concern, they can always charge more for healthcare for people who drink/smoke, price depends upon length of use. But we all know that will never work. Where I work, just about everyone when signing up for healthcare alway…

>"But yes, alcohol is harmful but I think smoking is even more so."

I disagree. Also alcoholics harm many other people around them

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#43

Post by parineum » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 5:55 PM UTC

jmclnx wrote: post #19

thatguy0900 wrote: post #3

How generous of the grown ups to ban things for other people but not yourself. Like it's objectively a good thing but it seems so silly and immature to me. How good could society be by now if we could get every generation to pass restrictions on the vices of the next generation only, I suppose. Edit: I know talking about down voting is discouraged, but since I'm being downvoted, why not go further? Alcohol is also ob…

> Alcohol is also objectively bad, why not implement this for alchohol? Well we both know that will never happen. But yes, alcohol is harmful but I think smoking is even more so. If Cost is NZ only concern, they can always charge more for healthcare for people who drink/smoke, price depends upon length of use. But we all know that will never work. Where I work, just about everyone when signing up for healthcare alway…

> But yes, alcohol is harmful but I think smoking is even more so.

I think that's more due to the relative ease of tracking the harmful effects of smoking. I don't think the majority of harm caused by alcohol ends up on death certificates as "alcoholism" and there are much more non-fatal negative outcomes from alcohol.

It's not that difficult to track lung cancer deaths relative to smoking population and find the excess deaths but tracking road fatalities, spouses abused, kids dropped out of school and even the secondary effects like children of alcoholics not receiving help with schoolwork are much harder to track. Second hand smoke is bad but your chain smoking dad can still help you with your math homework.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#44

Post by burnished » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 6:00 PM UTC

thatguy0900 wrote: post #3

How generous of the grown ups to ban things for other people but not yourself. Like it's objectively a good thing but it seems so silly and immature to me. How good could society be by now if we could get every generation to pass restrictions on the vices of the next generation only, I suppose. Edit: I know talking about down voting is discouraged, but since I'm being downvoted, why not go further? Alcohol is also ob…

It’s absurdly addictive. And as I understand it smoking as we know it has more to do with marketing and the intentional suppression of research indicating serious harm than anything else. Hell, I might liken it to generational trauma.

I’m not sure of the specifics. Does the law prevent you from growing and curing your own tobacco? There might be something important there - I don’t think folks would make their own cigarettes, but they would make their own alcohol. Feels like there is a difference.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#45

Post by hedora » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 6:01 PM UTC

blackoil wrote: post #23

CM30 wrote: post #10

Why do they think this won't increase the allure of cigarettes in general? Feels like prohibition has always been a questionable idea, regardless of what its target is, and it has pretty much never worked as expected. It's especially awkward given that people's interest in tobacco has already fallen to new lows without it (the article suggests only 8% of the adult population smokes now), so it feels like it could be…

> prohibition has always been a questionable idea Any data on it having counter effect on the actual consumption and prevelance? I believe are the negatives were secondary but it was effective in primary goals.

When the US raised the drinking age from 18 to 21, binge drinking in college skyrocketed. Alcohol producers are now some of the staunchest defenders of our current drinking age.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#46

Post by hedora » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 6:02 PM UTC

sarcoplasmic wrote: post #38

barbazoo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you do differently to solve the problem?

With 8% of NZ smoking and that number apparently falling, can you state the problem?

Lower tax revenues and tobacco profits?

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#47

Post by barbazoo » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 6:04 PM UTC

sarcoplasmic wrote: post #38

barbazoo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you do differently to solve the problem?

With 8% of NZ smoking and that number apparently falling, can you state the problem?

> She added that the legislation could close the life expectancy between Maori and non-Maori citizens. The overall smoking rate for Maori citizens is at 19.9% - down from last year's figure of 22.3%.

8% among general population but 19.9% among Maori.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#48

Post by hedora » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 6:05 PM UTC

stevehawk wrote: post #5

thatguy0900 wrote: post #3

How generous of the grown ups to ban things for other people but not yourself. Like it's objectively a good thing but it seems so silly and immature to me. How good could society be by now if we could get every generation to pass restrictions on the vices of the next generation only, I suppose. Edit: I know talking about down voting is discouraged, but since I'm being downvoted, why not go further? Alcohol is also ob…

I can't upvote this enough. This is a mind blowing precedent for New Zealand, and scarily, every country. I can't imagine how Boomers in the USA could be drooling at this concept.

In the US, it is the opposite.

The younger generations are (correctly) panicking over climate change, but the octegenarians in congress are working tirelessly to make sure that we'll continue burning the planet down for decades after they've kicked the bucket.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#49

Post by posterboy » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 6:06 PM UTC

eadmund wrote: post #40

Not just cigarettes — all tobacco products. How very appalling. Smoking is a human right. Pipes smell wonderful; tobacco generally tastes great and has a positive effect on one’s mood and attention. Sad day for New Zealanders.

That zeal.

From what I heared, anti-drug laws may be construed is that selling is a different matter and possession and production are accessory. That's why possession of small amounts of cannabis for example is decriminalized while traffiking is still prossecuted where I'm from.

This is arguable because addictive substances will be sold with the intention of creating dependence, not unlike the loot box topic, thus it cannot be argued that they act under good intentions.

And to be real, the wonderful smell acts on your parasympathic nervous system because of appetite, for the smell is associated with roasted food. Add to that the childish reflex of sucking on a nipple. So it is pretty much an eating disorder, in my humble opinion.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#50

Post by GekkePrutser » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 6:16 PM UTC

justahuman74 wrote: post #28

What are they going to provide as an alternative to nicotine? People start using it for a reason

Does anyone actually start smoking because they need nicotine? I've never heard that. It's always been peer pressure and only then do they get dependent on the nicotine.