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Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#131

Post by thehappypm »

HideousKojima wrote: post #94
otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already tried that, it doesn't work. Hint: tobacco and alcohol deaths didn't decrease when tobacco and alcohol sales were decriminalized. What does work is making the cost of drugs prohibitive by placing great transaction costs on the drug trade. (See: taxes and tobacco.)

Actually, it did. Cirrhosis deaths decreased between 10 and 20% during prohibition: https://www.jstor.org/stable/42705455

What about all the deaths from gang and moonshining activity that cropped up?

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#132

Post by thehappypm »

refurb wrote: post #84
323 wrote: post #20

All drugs should be legalized. That is the only solution. You should be able to buy cocaine, heroin, fentanyl at the local grocery store. No question asked. Maybe even subsidize it for poor people who can't afford market prices. The local pharmacy should provide training on how to inject/consume them safely and give for free the associated consumables.

There is a theory that seems correct - when a drug is banned, the black market moves towards the most potent version available. Even during prohibition it was way easier and profitable to make bootleg whiskey than beer. Why? It’s easier to conceal, packs the most punch, and is the most profitable by weight. Instead of making heroin legal, make opium legal. Or even weaker opioids like codeine. Then people who wanted a…

Marijuana seems to be an exception to this. After legalization it’s easier to get more and more and more concentrated versions

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#133

Post by d23 »

323 wrote: post #20

All drugs should be legalized. That is the only solution. You should be able to buy cocaine, heroin, fentanyl at the local grocery store. No question asked. Maybe even subsidize it for poor people who can't afford market prices. The local pharmacy should provide training on how to inject/consume them safely and give for free the associated consumables.

> You should be able to buy cocaine, heroin, fentanyl at the local grocery store. No question asked. Maybe even subsidize it for poor people who can't afford market prices.

One of the most unhinged things I've read on this site, and that's saying something.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#134

Post by smartbit »

HeyImAlex wrote: post #73
otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already tried that, it doesn't work. Hint: tobacco and alcohol deaths didn't decrease when tobacco and alcohol sales were decriminalized. What does work is making the cost of drugs prohibitive by placing great transaction costs on the drug trade. (See: taxes and tobacco.)

The article mentions fentanyl is more deadly but also 5-10 times cheaper than the opiates it replaces. $4 for an oxy clone is wildly accessible. No telling if I would have tried it as a teenager had they been that cheap and available.

OxyContin caused something in of the order of 500.000 death in the USA, if I remember well from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_the_Beauty_and_the_Bloodsh.... I wonder how this relates to the number of death related to Fentanyl?

Wouldn't this be a better title?

Washington faltered as Fentanyl & OxyCotion gripped America

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#135

Post by pfkurtz »

thepasswordis wrote: post #117
overthemoon wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People keep saying this. I don't get it. What's the proposed cause/effect of decriminalization on drug overdoses specifically? Testing kits, sure. And I see the argument for much softer sentences for small amounts with regards to reducing the egregious number of people in the prison system, although that is also a tangential issue to overdoses.

I think this sentiment usually comes from people who have no experience with the problem, and who are used to being contrarians, especially with regards to drugs like marijuana. The authority figure in their lives lied to them about marijjana, and now they think they they’re lying again about fentanyl. Fentanyl is a poison. It’s killing people. It is not like marijuana.

Isn't the suggestion that if there were not police/criminals as an interface to getting high, there would be a) the ability to know whether the drug one is purchasing contains a Fentanyl OD (labeled contents from auditable sources) b) more access to resources for dealing with addiction, less dangerous circumstances, etc

What has drug prohibition done to help the problem of addiction and violence in the United States?

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#136

Post by mitchdoogle »

tiffanyh wrote: post #31
cies wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about the legitimate/medical/supervised usage, it the recreational use that kills. Marijuana (MJ) is used a lot recreationally; if people to use MJ instead of Fentanyl the OD cases would not pile up like they do today.

It's just weird logic to say "X causes more deaths than Y, Y should be legal then". E.g. car accidents kill more people per year than marijuana. Does that mean driving a car should become illegal, and marijuana legalized? https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/LeadingCauses.html https://www.huffpost.com/entry/marijuana-deaths-2014_n_56816...

> Does that mean driving a car should become illegal, and marijuana legalized?

Honestly, yes. Or at least driving a car should require a much more strict licensing process. My daughter got a license during the pandemic and all that was required of her was driving around a parking lot once and then parking parallel. Skills which can be acquired in a couple of hours just prior to the test. Yes there is usually a written test as well, so there is some reason to believe people know what the basic road signs mean, but to let people loose on public roads traveling at 70 mph after a 5 minute driving test is just asking for widespread vehicle collisions.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#137

Post by ladeagaytf »

sklargh wrote: post #80

Operational question, why do the DEA and ATF exist? It seems that they are A. Failures* and B. Lack any distinctive law enforcement mission. Couldn't we just roll their missions up into the FBI? Perhaps the Secret Service as well? This feels far more efficient than several fragmented failures occurring simultaneously. *Eyeballing success by the number of murders with illegal firearms and drug deaths.

Political handcuffs.

What can the DEA do to prosecute more internally and externally? We would have to revert back to the ways of less human-rights friendly warfare. We would have to build physical and surveillance barriers. On borders. We would have to more heavily control shipments of goods and overall freedom of navigation of waters. We would have to turn our nation into a prison-island.

As for the ATF, well, only so much one can do for stolen arms… and even then we may have a critical mass problem. Unless we abolish the right to self-defense and start violating civil rights to clear the possession of weapons.

All politically untenable, and so what would rolling up these departments do other than consolidating power? They would have the exact same set of issues.

Much like invading Afghanistan, it’s a winnable issue in theory. After all, Alexander the Great did. However, modern political reality defeats you before the boardgame is out of the box.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#138

Post by ladeagaytf »

thehappypm wrote: post #124
bloopernova wrote: post #82

Why are people using Fentanyl? Maybe tackle that instead of further marginalizing people who use it? Are they using it to escape the grinding anxiety and desperation of their shitty lives? Are they using it instead of alcohol, again as escapism from reality? Is this use any different from how people used alcohol in past decades? I guess the point I'm poorly trying to make is that people aren't suddenly different to t…

This has the same energy as “we don’t have a gun control problem. We have a mental health problem” which every Republican says after every mass shooting

Well, it’s true…

It’s an empty statement, neither side agrees on the fix for poor mental health and so the ball keeps on spinning.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#139

Post by rr888 »

mynameishere wrote: post #41
323 wrote: post #20

All drugs should be legalized. That is the only solution. You should be able to buy cocaine, heroin, fentanyl at the local grocery store. No question asked. Maybe even subsidize it for poor people who can't afford market prices. The local pharmacy should provide training on how to inject/consume them safely and give for free the associated consumables.

Sure would fix it. By killing them faster

That was my thought. Legalizing to me means likely way for the homeless population to clear them up more quickly.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#140

Post by DrBazza »

thesuitonym wrote: post #115
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but wouldn't consider watching TV to be meaningful research.

It's not, but it's hard to argue that TV advertising is (or was until very recently) a great way to get your drug's name out to the public. It's hard to research something you don't know about, especially before the Internet was commonly available. Of course, the drugs with ads are usually the most expensive name brand drugs that will earn the pharma companies a lot of money.

In the UK, we don't see a drug on the TV (other than headache tablets and cough syrups) and then demand our doctors prescribe them. We visit a doctor who makes a diagnosis and prescribes the appropriate medicine, if necessary.
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