Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

dailykos.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 115 posts

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#31

Post by rabidonrails »

BryanB55 wrote: post #14

I found this all pretty pointless... The TSA people were just doing their job. I will gladly be quiet or even assist them in any reasonable screening duties if it means keeping us safe. That is all they are trying to do, it's not like they have some malicious intent. In my opinion we are not giving up many rights by letting people see if we have any weapons us. If you do not want to go through the new body scanners t…

I think you're missing the point. She doesn't fault them for "doing their job," she finds fault with the fact that there is a government job in which she sees violations to the Constitution.

Also, if you would like to let someone look at your possessions, that's your right. But, a government official cannot, without reasonable cause, demand to look at your property.

I'm not saying I would have tried to pull this off, but there is something to be said for her continuously asking "do you have a warrant."

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#32

Post by jballanc »

During the Cold War, there was this mentality held by leaders on both sides that said you could not show weakness to the enemy. It was this mentality that caused the Cuban Missile crisis, and that allowed it to be resolved by secret communication along privileged back-channels (all the while keeping public posturing such that neither side had to reveal any weakness). As idiotic as this mentality has always seemed to me, as I get older (and hopefully a bit wiser) I've come to understand there is some merit to it.

I travel overseas frequently. One of my favorite airports is Istanbul's Ataturk International Airport. I like it because I can sit in a cafe waiting for my plane to New York, and I can listen to the PA make announcements for flights to Nairobi, Dubai, Singapore, Moscow, Pairs, and Sao Paulo. Istanbul literally connects to the entire world. And yet, there is only one gate in the entire terminal that has "secondary screening", the one for the New York flight. The thought that somehow the threat of terrorism is greater in the United States than anywhere else in the world is laughable to anyone who pays the slightest bit of attention to world events. Yet, it is only the United States that feels the need to have extra security precautions.

I wonder how many Americans see the TSA, the Patriot Act, etc. as evidence of the greatness of America. "Our country must be the greatest in the world if it requires so much effort to protect," I imagine them thinking. "Why would so many people be against us if it were not the case?" In reality, the rest of the world sees a frightened bully, and they're not falling for it any more. They go to places like Istanbul's airport, or any of the hundreds of other airports around the world that have extra screening set up exclusively for US bound flights, and they see weakness.

What's really almost funny about all of this, is that the 4th amendment is uniquely American. It is not at all uncommon in other countries for police (or the Gendarme) to be authorized to stop pedestrians and perform a search without cause. The mere existence of the 4th amendment has, traditionally, been a sign of strength. As if to say: "We're so confident of our security and the resolve of our justice system that we will give our citizens this extra right."

By reducing 4th amendment rights, the US is not gaining security, it is showing weakness...and that can be dangerous to the long term health of a country.

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#33

Post by dustingetz »

gerggerg wrote: post #24

Lots of people commenting here seem to think that just because something appears to have no effect that it was a failure of an exercise and should have never happened. God forbid it cause a minor inconvenience to other humans. PEOPLE HAVE TO STAND UP FOR WHAT THEY THINK IS RIGHT. Even if the effect it has seems insignificant. It doesn't matter if your an ass for doing it. It doesn't matter if some people think you we…

  > PEOPLE HAVE TO STAND UP FOR WHAT THEY THINK IS RIGHT. 
  > Even if the effect it has seems insignificant.
If a common civilian wishes to help, she can probably find a better way than standing up to some scripted peons.

I wonder what her court costs are going to be. I wish she had donated that money to the EFF. The EFF is in a better position to fight this stuff intelligently, and at the right levels.

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#34

Post by glenra »

phaus wrote: post #2

When you decide to yell out the words to the 4th amendment at the same exact moment you are being processed through the security checkpoint at an airport, you are intentionally trying to cause a scene. This can and would be construed by any reasonable person as an attempt to disrupt the screening process. The author knew exactly what she was doing. While I'm not sure it was grounds for an arrest, she was maliciously…

You make it sound like "disrupting the screening process" is a bad thing.

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#35

Post by jasonlotito »

maxklein wrote: post #21

For people like me who are afraid of flying, this lady is just disturbing the peace. People should be searched before being let on planes. If people are not searched, there will be more plane attacks and global transport will decline. Planes will always be targets for terrorists because of what they represent. The law is not about technicalities. It's about reason and sense, and sensible is that when someone is behav…

Yeah, disturbers of the peace, like that damn black woman who wouldn't move to the back of the bus. My peace > your rights.

> If people are not searched, there will be more plane attacks and global transport will decline.

Damn right, brother! I say we take this a step further, and start searching people when they enter the mall. I mean, a terrorist in the mall is just as dangerous. Especially during the holidays.

Or hell, let's search everyone going to the new years bash in Times Square. Just make 'em strip. As you say, nothing strange about being seen naked by strangers.

And we should also start using these scanners at schools. Clearly, with all the school shootings going on, gotta protect the innocent kids, right?

We can also take the same approach online. Have everyone register their computer's OS with their ISP, and only those registered computers can use the internet. I mean, if you are innocent, you have nothing to worry about, right? This can help stop child pornography, you know. And people distributing files they don't have the right to distribute.

Personally, I'm afraid of dying in cars. Did you know, more people die in an automobile accident then a terrorist attack? Clearly, we need to rid ourselves of these terrorists of the road. Make every car require a breathalyzer. If you've had a drink, you can't drive. Keep it simple. Keep it safe. Save lives! It's reasonable. I mean, I'm afraid of other drivers, and they are just disturbing my peace. I mean, the only people that would disagree are terrorists, child pornographers, drunk drivers, and pirating thieves!

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#36

Post by jasonlotito »

dustingetz wrote: post #33
gerggerg wrote: post #24

Lots of people commenting here seem to think that just because something appears to have no effect that it was a failure of an exercise and should have never happened. God forbid it cause a minor inconvenience to other humans. PEOPLE HAVE TO STAND UP FOR WHAT THEY THINK IS RIGHT. Even if the effect it has seems insignificant. It doesn't matter if your an ass for doing it. It doesn't matter if some people think you we…

> PEOPLE HAVE TO STAND UP FOR WHAT THEY THINK IS RIGHT. > Even if the effect it has seems insignificant. If a common civilian wishes to help, she can probably find a better way than standing up to some scripted peons. I wonder what her court costs are going to be. I wish she had donated that money to the EFF. The EFF is in a better position to fight this stuff intelligently, and at the right levels.

> If a common civilian wishes to help, she can probably find a better way than standing up to some scripted peons.

Rosa Parks?

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#37

Post by felipellrocha »

quanticle wrote: post #3

Some basic Constitutional law would have saved this guy the trouble. The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has already ruled that travelers do not have the right to refuse searches at an airport [1]. You might disagree with the decision, but if you're going to pull a stunt like this, you should at least be informed on the current state of jurisprudence regarding airport searches. [1] http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/…

Likewise, imagine if Rosa Park had thought of her day's jurisprudence when she refused to give up her seat back in 1955. "Man, I am tired from all the work today, but the courts say I should give up my seat."

And, surely you meant "this woman," as she does say she has a husband in the article.

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#38

Post by smokeyj »

maxklein wrote: post #21

For people like me who are afraid of flying, this lady is just disturbing the peace. People should be searched before being let on planes. If people are not searched, there will be more plane attacks and global transport will decline. Planes will always be targets for terrorists because of what they represent. The law is not about technicalities. It's about reason and sense, and sensible is that when someone is behav…

This dichotomy you present holds two points: a) the TSA has full rights to our person, or b) The terrorists win. Please consider there is actually a c-z.

Let me put it this way. There are thousands of mechanical and electronic pieces on a plane, most of which were assembled by private enterprise. You trust them with your life to fly your ass miles through the air, and to land on a strip of tar -- safely, timely, and efficiently. Yet, they're not capable of keeping you safe from "terrorists"?

If this manufactured image of terrorists were actually a real threat to airliners, they would be addressing it themselves, just like they would any other life-threatening safety flaw on their plane.

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#39

Post by maeon3 »

Without citizens like this to assert and reassert our rights in the face of violent psychological bullying at areas of great injustice, nobody reading this would have any rights at all. I don't get to call this country mine as much as she does. The fact that psychological blitzkrieg is the response to holding up a screening line means something is terribly wrong here.

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#40

Post by phaus »

jbooth wrote: post #29
phaus wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to think that she is fighting the good fight on behalf of humanity. She is a professional writer who did this as a publicity stunt so she could write about the experience afterwards. Her biggest accomplishment is that she managed to make one of the scummiest organizations in the United States appear to be in the right. Way to go freedom fighter.

Ah, so we've catapulted the whole defending the erosion of our rights thing and now we're into personally insulting the person who told the story. Good move, considering the grounds of your argument and all. I'll repeat my question.. how bad would it have to be for you to agree with civil disobedience?

I never said that I disagree with civil disobedience. I just don't agree with this woman's perspective on exactly what transpired in this situation.

I've worked for the federal government my entire adult life. If you want to convince them to get rid of the TSA, the side asking for the change has to appear blameless.

The way bureaucrats make decisions is not logical. If you give them 999 examples of the TSA breaking the law or violating basic human rights, they will simply shrug and say "remember that one time that woman went to that airport and purposely tried to get arrested? Yea, well these other complaints are probably from people just like her."

To make it clear, I don't like the corrupt, incompetent, abusive illusion of a democracy that we have built for ourselves in the United States. Unfortunately, the scumbags at the TSA has been put in charge of our Nation's airports. Unfortunately, if you want to board an aircraft in the United States, you have to submit to being processed through the security checkpoint. Unfortunately, if we want this to change it will be a long and painful process.

This woman's efforts will have no positive impact on the effort to get the TSA disbanded or reformed. Being able to recognize this doesn't make me a freedom-hating fascist. I would appreciate it if you didn't try to imply that I am.

Post reply on HN