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Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

robkhenderson.substack.com

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Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#451

Post by vineyardmike »

cafard wrote: post #443
vineyardmike wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Clothing seems to be the same at many companies: you had better wear tailored suits and shirts or be less dressy than "business casual." There’s a running joke in my circle about the “dad professional class”. People who are older (40-60s) and go to the office in a remote-work-accepting world mostly because they seem to want to leave their family at home. They all dress like shit in ill-fitting clothes, but because…

Or maybe by their 40s-60s they have lost all interest in what 25yos, tee-shirted or not, think about their attire. They have seen the fashion wheel spin more than once, and are no longer compelled by it. (Source: upper 60s, go into the office mostly because a) it's not far, b) my office setup is a bit better, c) I don't want to wake my wife with Zoom calls. I do have some tailored shirts but seldom wear them.)

> maybe by their 40s-60s they have lost all interest in what 25yos

Its not about the fashion, its about looking put together. Its signaling that you care. Of course, there's the article which says that people who made it can stop signaling, so maybe that's you.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#452

Post by MacsHeadroom »

depressedpanda wrote: post #389
ROTMetro wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a more obscure watch, but one that those that care recognize. It has signaled me as part of the 'correct' crowd more than once and definitely done it's purpose.

What purpose is this? What happens when your watch signals that you belong to the correct crowd?

People with money and power respect you more and are more likely to drop their guard in some ways. This applies to in-group signaling generally. In this case the in-group is the rich and powerful.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#453

Post by fbdab103 »

coredog64 wrote: post #190
fnbr wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s an example of a watch that’s mechanically identical to a Rolex?

A Seiko SKX (or a spiritual successor) with a regulated NH35 will fall into the same “100m water resistance, accurate to within 10 seconds per day” category as a Rolex for about a 10th of the price.

>...accurate to within 10 seconds per day

That is hilarious to me. A quick search is showing one can expect a POS Casio to be +/- 15 seconds per month.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#454

Post by Melting_Harps »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #436
PaulHoule wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in the 1990s my dad's oldest brother went to the outskirts of NYC and was really impressed with the fake "Rolex" he bought. My mom was indignant about it because she sold men's clothing for a living and could tell you exactly how a fake Tommy Hilfiger shirt was worse in so many ways than a real one. Two weeks later the watch stopped running. Around the same time, though, my mom's youngest brother was driving on…

> My mom was indignant about it because she sold men's clothing for a living and could tell you exactly how a fake Tommy Hilfiger shirt was worse in so many ways than a real one. Gomorrah opens with a description of Italian clothing manufacturing. As described there, the difference between a fake shirt and a real shirt is that they were made to the same specifications under one and the same contract, by different fac…

> It's an interesting book. https://www.amazon.com/dp/1250145031/

They also made a movie of it [0], I lived in Italy during the financial crisis and it had become commonplace to see large migrating Chinese coming from the North (likely illegal migrants in Milan's clothing factories) come to the central part of Italy looking for work on farms and restaurants. It was hard times as this was taking place as the large migration from N. Africa was happening and they were living in the parks and making the locals irate.

It all came to light when our resident cheese maker, who used to work in the fashion Industry, had to tell them in broken Mandarin that we were fully staffed and couldn't accommodate them, but to try elsewhere further South--a typical way to brush-off a problem as is the running theme with Gomorrah.

I soon realized how dirty the Fashion Industry was as the Zara scandal was ettin into full swing and the workers were taking to writing messages about not being paid for the garments they made [1] as the factories were in sweatshops in Xinjiang or Brazil.

I wouldn't all it interesting so much as it is sobering and eye opening to the perils of offshore manufacturing practices and Italy's fashion Industry was just one of many of these horrors; Foxxcon's electronic manufacturing reliant on African rare earth mine exploitation make all of this pale in comparison.

> That's Italy!

It's anywhere you want to see where manufacturing costs get pushed to be the smallest possible line-item/expense in a value chain; the US is notorious for using forced labour in prisons for these kind of things, too. It's sad because it is a common practice in the worst labour camps/prisons in Russia (Siberia). It's where Britney Griner was going to serve her sentence, which incidentally is also where the Nadya of Pussy Riot spent several years in and was very candid about what was awaiting for her there.

0: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0929425/

1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdNvPSD8H1k

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#455

Post by PragmaticPulp »

steveBK123 wrote: post #47

"An example from Ogilvy Vice Chairman Rory Sutherland: If you’re a top executive, turning up to work on a bicycle is a high-status activity because it was a choice and not a necessity. But if you work at Pizza Hut, turning up on a bike means you can’t afford a car." This tidbit reminds me of a similar anecdote (that my experience aligns with) re: the modern upper class that wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW i…

> But instead they have eccentric "hobbies" requiring $10ks of of equipment, inclusive of "needing" $10k viking stove/range, and $10k subzero fridge/freezer in your kitchen because you are a "foodie" and doing a $500k home Reno because you have good architectural taste and style.

Or maybe they just like to cook and enjoy having good hardware?

Not everything is for signaling purposes. It's really cynical to start viewing everyone's personal expenditures as some sort of socially manipulative tactic. This is especially true when it comes to people's hobbies, where many of us are just trying to enjoy ourselves and appreciate having good hardware around.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#456

Post by SoftTalker »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #391
SoftTalker wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, that's the point of the parent of this subthread. They (the hoodie-wearers) would probably insist that they don't judge based on dress or appearance, but they do, and maybe more harshly than the suit-wearers. It's just what people do. I grew up wearing suits to work, shaving every day, and wearing a short neat haircut. I don't as much anymore, but I don't wear hoodies with pizza sauce stains either, and I don'…

You'll meet suit-wearing people, business casual people, and pizza-stained-hoodie people. Some will be conventionally attractive, some not. Some old, some young, some male, some female, some of one race, some another. Some will be skilled, diligent, and productive, some will be well-spoken and good communicators, some will be honest, some will be punctual... some will be not. Some of those things are choices that mat…

I didn't say it but I was talking in the context of a standard office setting that most of us probably work in.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#457

Post by chrisbolt »

lazide wrote: post #397
onetimeusename wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rolex hatred seems like it is about expressing contempt towards the previous establishment. Presidents used to wear them (still do actually) but it's not uncommon to see very rich politicians wearing very cheap watches probably deliberately. Same goes for suit wearing. I think pg wrote an article on his blog about how suit wearing was for people who thought like conformists and obviously being a conformist was not fo…

Interestingly, the $1 salary (with large equity) gives you massive flexibility in how and when you get taxed, and also a lot of additional negotiating power and flexibility with ex-wives (and the Court) on child support and alimony, at least in California.

Courts are oblivious to equity and other non-salary compensation?

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#458

Post by brankoB »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #145

> In contrast, children will copy every single action, including the unnecessary ones. The example that immediately springs to mind, in the tech industry, is the "Steve Jobs Asshole" archetype. Steve Jobs was a notorious manager, in that he made heavy-duty demands, did not suffer fools, and was blunt to the point of abusive. But he was also able to filter for talent, cultivate it, and encourage excellence. He wasn't…

He was smart in the sense he knew how to best exploit his engineers and take credit for their work.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#459

Post by Nullabillity »

vineyardmike wrote: post #451
cafard wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe by their 40s-60s they have lost all interest in what 25yos, tee-shirted or not, think about their attire. They have seen the fashion wheel spin more than once, and are no longer compelled by it. (Source: upper 60s, go into the office mostly because a) it's not far, b) my office setup is a bit better, c) I don't want to wake my wife with Zoom calls. I do have some tailored shirts but seldom wear them.)

> maybe by their 40s-60s they have lost all interest in what 25yos Its not about the fashion, its about looking put together. Its signaling that you care. Of course, there's the article which says that people who made it can stop signaling, so maybe that's you.

Filtering out snobs just sounds like a bonus.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#460

Post by FridgeSeal »

lanstin wrote: post #336
bagels wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are people who do.

Tho they worry so much about it getting stolen I think they enjoy biking overall less than they would a bike suitable for just hopping on and biking around to different places.

If someone can afford to roll up to work on a bike that expensive, they are probably not worried about it getting stolen. Specifically, they either likely have somewhere to lock it up, or can afford to replace it (and/or have it insured). Make no mistake, rocking up to work on your Factor/S-Works/Cervelo/etc is a flex, either deliberately (look at my boutique, expensive bike, peasants), or subconsciously ("oh yeah, my bike? Yeah picked it up the other day, know the guy that owns the shop").
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