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Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

robkhenderson.substack.com

401–410 of 651 posts

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The food part is big. It’s wild how in the US especially there are about three classes of grocery stores and each cater almost exclusively to a certain social class. You don’t see many laborers or fast food workers grabbing a meal from the local co-op or Whole Foods and the local Aldi or Walmart rarely sees an executive unless they’re infamously stingy

You see this A LOT in food spend in US especially in rich urban areas. I have friends who would kind of scoff at a Rolex but proudly describe the latest $500-for-2 dinner they went to last week. Similarly I had a friend who only upgraded his iPhone with hand-me-downs from his teenage daughter, so he'd be like 3-4 years behind the curve. Meanwhile he owned like 4 homes and dined out similarly to my other friend.

> You see this A LOT in food spend in US especially in rich urban areas.

This won't resonate withh you unless you are or were ever a cook, I fear we had so much more left to capture and were forced to leave on the table that was taken away because of COVID, but this transition in the US food culture was paid with lots of hard work and countless sacrifices that most will never get beyond watching an episode of The Bear.

Two big blows came in hard after Bourdain's death (so many concepts and projects were abandoned that never came back) and then followed with COVID destroying the Industry in such a way that I'm doubting will ever get much further than this in my Lifetime any more: food culture in the US still has so much left to catch up with Asia and Europe but we were making massive progress towards that, but I'm staring to accept this will probably be the high-water mark that the next generation of tech workers and cooks alike will need to build off of. And no, ghost kitchens and burning VC money from Softbank on DD is not a solution.

So far, outside of small boutique restaurants and kitchens, all I've seen is a race to the bottom profit seeking with almost no motivation other than to capture what marketshare remains from corps who benefited from PPP and ZIRP at whatever cost it takes and cutting corners until they got bought out by a large Restaurant group. This may seem like hyperbole but ~60% of all restaurants shutdown forever [0] after covid in what was already I high-failure sector with incredibly costly CAPEX/OPEX business models and low profit margins even during the best of times.

My last encounter with a delivery driver from a large vendor (think Shamrock or Sysco type corp) brought it all home: they had essentially succumb to the same exploitative delivery and monitoring systems that an Amazon delivery driver has, which was a stark contrast to getting deliveries from local farmers for produce/protein ha were the highlight of the menu and accompanied with items from small artisans and purveyors for cheeses, deserts breads etc...

We've lost something very vital coming out of COVID, and I'm not sure what can be done to not undo the progress that was made since the culture-shift has swung so hard to this Amazonification of this Industry.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Confused on your last point. Joining a good pre IPO company is generally a good idea. The difficult part is to find the good company, IMO. Look at how many were considered good but still haven’t gone public.

That’s the whole point, you can’t deterministically know which company will make you rich in a couple years without a massive amount of luck (like my friend). My friend instead meant it as: “are you stupid? Why don’t you just do like me? It’s so easy and simple!”. I clearly have a lot of startups and pre IPO companies under my belt, and he knew that.

Got it. Makes sense. I figured maybe that was the case but the wording confused me.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#403

"An example from Ogilvy Vice Chairman Rory Sutherland: If you’re a top executive, turning up to work on a bicycle is a high-status activity because it was a choice and not a necessity. But if you work at Pizza Hut, turning up on a bike means you can’t afford a car." This tidbit reminds me of a similar anecdote (that my experience aligns with) re: the modern upper class that wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW i…

>the modern upper class that wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW is frowned upon. There was a time, not that long time ago in which good clocks were expensive and expending 2ks on a good clock was similar to expending 2k on a laptop today, a functional, reasonable decision. My uncle earned a much more expensive Rolex than 2k in a Golf tournament and wearing it nobody believed it was genuine, even a watchmaker c…

> In places like Spain or France people do not admire you for having money, on the contrary they envy you

Or maybe not. You mileage may vary.

This would depend a lot on how do you earned it.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is a shame. Someone wearing business casual is so much more pleasant to the eye than typical sloppy hacker wear. Especially once you start getting older and flabbier.

Doesn’t business causal mean like slacks and a lame tucked in pastel polo shirt? I think both a suit and hacker wear are more interesting

Depends on the context. When I was a SV biglaw associate, I wore slacks and button down, generally without coat (only for meetings). On 'casual Friday' I wore polo, typically with jeans. Basically, SV law firms are always 'business casual' unless you're going to court or a deposition. And on casual Fridays, it's even less formal.

I assume tech companies are more casual than big law firms, and that things may have gotten more casual in the decade since I left the law.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the people who started dressing like Steve Jobs. Elizabeth Holmes and Mark Zuckerberg come to mind as people who did this in an obvious way. Zuckerberg was never known for copying the look of Steve Jobs. I doubt you can find multiple photos from different dates that demonstrates the claim. Zuck wore zip hoodies and flip flops; the version of Jobs that Zuckerberg would have been exposed to did not dress that way (Jo…

I'm not referring to copying the actual style but rather copying the habit of wearing the same thing as a way to avoid spending time making the decision of what to wear. This concept was written about ad nauseam about a decade ago, with Jobs as the inspiration. I don't assume Jobs was the first one to do it, and it's certainly more conspicuous that Holmes was copying Jobs' style , but I do assume that people like Zuc…

I don't think that behaviour is an attempt to mimic Steve Jobs, or any kind of signalling strategy. It's an effective strategy for minimising cognitive load and energy.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#406

"An example from Ogilvy Vice Chairman Rory Sutherland: If you’re a top executive, turning up to work on a bicycle is a high-status activity because it was a choice and not a necessity. But if you work at Pizza Hut, turning up on a bike means you can’t afford a car." This tidbit reminds me of a similar anecdote (that my experience aligns with) re: the modern upper class that wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW i…

Let's take a step back from the signalling perspective and recognize that hobbies (expensive or not) are a lot more fun than watches, which provide almost nothing but status. The same goes for remodeling, which is an extended form of decoration and also a hobby for some people.

Unless watches are a hobby.

I find mechanical watches to be fascinating. This is obsolete technology, and yet, innovation continues. This is precision engineering, but at least for the high end, mostly done by hand. A lovely anachronism, which is a fitting word for a timepiece. It is like real life steampunk. I fully understand the appeal beyond status signalling. How can geeks not be at least a little interested in watchmaking?

I know some people don't care and for them it is just status signaling. But it the same as for supercars: just because it is status doesn't mean there isn't something behind it.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if you have the money and interest, spend it. But people often conflate "investment" & consumption when its anything related to home renovation. I'd still argue these types of "hobbies" are 90% consumption, and for most of the people I know.. usually financed with loans. No one I know with a $100k kitchen cooks any better than my poor immigrant grandmother did.

Think of it like a machine shop. Expensive tools work way, way better than cheap ones. I also have a restaurant grade toaster. It costs quite a bit more than the usual toasters do. But the usual ones would always break after a year or two. The restaurant toaster makes better toast, and has worked fine for 25 years now. It was actually cheaper to get the restaurant grade one over the long haul.

> The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles. But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet. This was the Captain Samuel Vimes "Boots" theory of socioeconomic unfairness.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#408
post #364

> If a chimpanzee views a person perform a series of superfluous actions, along with one single necessary action, in order to obtain a piece of food, the chimpanzee will skip the superfluous action, and perform only the necessary one. > In contrast, children will copy every single action, including the unnecessary ones. I watched the video, but I'm unconvinced. They tell the kid the box is " magic ". Children know th…

>Children know the box is not magic. are you sure about that?

It’s important to clarify this question. Children, especially young children, do not have a clear view of what is real and What is not real. The line is different for everyone, but I’d say at 7 or 8 that starts to come into focus. Even then, there are plenty of grown, intelligent adults who believe things without any substantial evidence.

I will say that kids are way smarter than we often give them credit for. They’re natural scientists, and I think we probably educate that kind of learning out of them.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I worked at Google I always had the distinct feeling that my hard work was paying for some manager’s $500k home renovation. I’m way more interested in working hard to help people who really need it, and I’m glad I’m not working at a place like that anymore.

Where did you end up that is helping people who really need it?

I’m doing an open source solar powered farming robot nonprofit thing! [1] It’s an amazing feeling finishing a huge PCB design project for work and then immediately pushing the changes to GitHub. I’ve got a new brushless motor controller in the works that costs under $40 per board fully assembled for high current dual motor control, and anyone can order them (ideally wait till design is slightly more mature). [2]

[1] https://community.twistedfields.com/t/march-2022-update-simu...

[2] https://github.com/Twisted-Fields/rp2040-motor-controller

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#410

> An example from Ogilvy Vice Chairman Rory Sutherland: If you’re a top executive, turning up to work on a bicycle is a high-status activity because it was a choice and not a necessity. But if you work at Pizza Hut, turning up on a bike means you can’t afford a car. It must be so tedious to live having internalized this perspective on people. The vast vast majority of people are not "signaling" when they do things, t…

> It must be so tedious to live having internalized this perspective on people. The vast vast majority of people are not "signaling"

I can assure you that posting on a public forum that you think signaling is beneath you is signaling.

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