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Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

robkhenderson.substack.com

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Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#331

Post by notinfuriated »

mike_hearn wrote: post #263
notinfuriated wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Steve Jobs example I immediately think of when talking about imitating unnecessary behaviors are all the people who started dressing like Steve Jobs. Elizabeth Holmes and Mark Zuckerberg come to mind as people who did this in an obvious way. But the 'asshole boss' or authority figure archetype is an old one, from long before Steve Jobs, and it can be an effective motivational tool, although many of us, myself inc…

Holmes yes, so obviously so that people remarked on it. Zuckerberg? The archetype of Steve Jobs' dress code is the black turtleneck and jeans. Zuck is famous for his consistent grey t-shirt and jeans, or sometimes hoodies.

Per my other comment, it's not the copying of the style but rather the copying of the behavior / habit:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33946519

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#332

Post by nostrademons »

Tarq0n wrote: post #261
helen___keller wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW is frowned upon. But instead they have eccentric "hobbies" requiring $10ks of of equipment, inclusive of "needing" $10k viking stove/range, and $10k subzero fridge/freezer in your kitchen because you are a "foodie" […] Isn’t this conflating status signal with lifestyle? The wealthy have always enjoyed expensive lifestyles and hobbies. In and of itself, expensive hobby equip…

A sociologist would tell you that there is no such thing as a lifestyle which isn't a performance of one's status.

There are but it's considered a personality disorder.

There are folks that are genuinely uninterested in social status, and it usually goes along with being uninterested in social relationships. Think of autistic/Asperger's individuals; certain psychopaths & sociopaths; people with schizoid, schizotypal, avoidant, or antisocial personality disorders; et al. No relationships = no status = no need to worry about social status and social signaling.

It's much like how where there's people, there's politics. Where there's social, there's status. Take away the social and you take away both the performance and the status.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#333

Post by rwmj »

moneywoes wrote: post #270
trasz2 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically a Rolex, however expensive, will always be much worse as a watch than a 20$ Casio. But recently there's another aspect to this: there are now watches that are technically (mechanically) identical to rolexes. Same design, same mechanics, virtually impossible to tell the difference when you tear it apart. Rolex has always been more about marketing (artificial scarcity, waiting list etc) than mechanics, but…

Where can one get those similar Rolex’s? For science

Have a look at this guy's AliExpress watch reviews: https://www.youtube.com/c/JustOneMoreWatch/videos You should be able to get a reasonable Rolex hommage well under $500.

(Not a Rolex immitation, but I'm wearing a JDM Casio Oceanus S100 which is all the watch that anyone would ever need.)

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#334

Post by Gordonjcp »

yourapostasy wrote: post #320
Gordonjcp wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For ~$70k you used to be able to get a Model S, which now STARTS at $105k. Easily configurable into the $130-160k range now.. insane. For a shit car with the interior fit and finish of a poverty-spec Skoda, and all the important controls replaced with a bloody great iPad that blinds you at night. Oh, and it's from an obscenely "techbro" company. Am I the only one not impressed in any sense by Teslas?

> Am I the only one not impressed in any sense by Teslas I could excuse the drawbacks you cited and the cost if they were the Framework laptop of the automotive world. But at those price points, and a repairability narrative that is not much better than, “out of warranty and one accident away from into landfill”, there isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell I’ll buy a Tesla.

> repairability narrative that is not much better than, “out of warranty and one accident away from into landfill”

I have a couple of old Range Rovers. There are very few things you can't fix with a half-inch spanner and a hammer, and those you can fix with a 7/16th spanner and a bit of sticky tape.

They run on propane, so they get cheap tax and can be registered as Low Emission Vehicles, which is pretty hilarious for a 4-litre V8.

Combined they probably still have a smaller ecological footprint than making one Tesla Model S.

They've also got far comfier seats.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#335

Post by steveBK123 »

tbrownaw wrote: post #328
steveBK123 wrote: post #47

"An example from Ogilvy Vice Chairman Rory Sutherland: If you’re a top executive, turning up to work on a bicycle is a high-status activity because it was a choice and not a necessity. But if you work at Pizza Hut, turning up on a bike means you can’t afford a car." This tidbit reminds me of a similar anecdote (that my experience aligns with) re: the modern upper class that wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW i…

> * The last round of job searching doing zoom interviews, I wore my hoodie for half the calls. If I had done this while job searching out of college, during my internship, or at my first job.. I would not be where I am today.* That's not just status, it's got change over time mixed in.

It's partially status in that, I'm advanced enough in my career that I don't really care to work anywhere that would ding me in a zoom interview over my outfit. Earlier in my career I could not have afforded to be so picky.

One of the starkest power dynamics in dress code I've observed is in non-tech firms that have large tech orgs to support the revenue generating roles. While there were official dress codes that tech largely abided, our internal customers who generated revenue often showed up in tee shirts or wore ball caps in the office ...

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#336

Post by lanstin »

bagels wrote: post #241
jhrmnn wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there 10k commute bikes? I doubt people take 10k pro road bikes to work

There are people who do.

Tho they worry so much about it getting stolen I think they enjoy biking overall less than they would a bike suitable for just hopping on and biking around to different places.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#337

Post by labrador »

ajb wrote: post #260

As always, context is everything. Not all countersignals are that costly. For example, casual wear is common among devs. This signals that our skill set is valuable enough that we don't need to comply with corporate dress codes. Sometimes someone from a poor background turns up in a suit - for example, we had a QA guy who did, having converted from some previous career via a short course. Sometimes new grads come to…

“You got to be awful rich to dress as bad as you do”

― John Steinbeck, Travels With Charley: In Search of America

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#338

Post by steveBK123 »

hindsightbias wrote: post #264
steveBK123 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. To me, a $500k unnecessary renovation throws more money away than a $70k vs $40k car. At least with the car you are likely getting safety features and extensive sensor suites for driver assist for the money, that have tangible impact on your driving experience. Or Spending 5-10x on a $10k appliance where a $1-2k one would do. These people tend to get the whole set, so it's a good $30-40k worth of kitchen app…

That renovation probably paid for a lot of renovators Raptors.

exactly, which closes the circle explaining how average car prices have gone up so much.. largely driven by expensive pickups hahaha!

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#339

Post by kelnos »

Gordonjcp wrote: post #285
steveBK123 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely! Not to mention a fully specced out Tesla Model 3 is $80k and Model Y is now.. $90k, and the tax credits are basically gone! I remember getting a pretty well configured Model 3 for $50k after tax incentives in their first year of production. For ~$70k you used to be able to get a Model S, which now STARTS at $105k. Easily configurable into the $130-160k range now.. insane.

> For ~$70k you used to be able to get a Model S, which now STARTS at $105k. Easily configurable into the $130-160k range now.. insane. For a shit car with the interior fit and finish of a poverty-spec Skoda, and all the important controls replaced with a bloody great iPad that blinds you at night. Oh, and it's from an obscenely "techbro" company. Am I the only one not impressed in any sense by Teslas?

I'm impressed in the sense that Tesla has done amazing things with battery technology, and has made EVs "cool". It's sometimes easy to forget, but before Tesla, EVs were ugly and nobody wanted them.

But yeah, whenever I'm in a Tesla, the interior looks cheap, and the giant iPad (in the Model 3 at least) looks bolted-on rather than designed-in. Not to mention the real-time display of what's around the car is laughably bad, with cars and pedestrians flickering in and out, and sometimes not even showing up at all.

I'm glad people drive them, though; more EVs on the street is a good thing.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#340

Post by steveBK123 »

logifail wrote: post #281
steveBK123 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflation is a huge factor here for sure. Most people probably can't get their heads around a well equipped Toyota Corolla approaching $30k or Honda Accord hitting $40k. Mentally to me these are BMW 3-series prices, but that's not been true for some time! If you are in the market for a 3-row / 7 seater, you can spend $55k on a Toyota Highlander SUV or $40k on a Toyota Siena minivan. It's genuinely pretty challenging…

> outside fairly basic [...] vehicles in their base trim without options Nothing wrong with basic vehicles "in their base trim without options", we have two parked outside the house right now, and the vehicle we owned before them was similar.

Agreed.

I am only trying to illustrate that the line between luxury/excess in autos has shifted substantially in the last few years partially inflation driven and partially cheap credit / long loan terms driven.

The universe of under-$30k cars is now quite limited whereas 5 years ago, one could possibly describe $30k+ as being luxury.

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