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Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

robkhenderson.substack.com

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Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#291

Post by ROTMetro »

trasz2 wrote: post #133
cracrecry wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the modern upper class that wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW is frowned upon. There was a time, not that long time ago in which good clocks were expensive and expending 2ks on a good clock was similar to expending 2k on a laptop today, a functional, reasonable decision. My uncle earned a much more expensive Rolex than 2k in a Golf tournament and wearing it nobody believed it was genuine, even a watchmaker c…

Technically a Rolex, however expensive, will always be much worse as a watch than a 20$ Casio. But recently there's another aspect to this: there are now watches that are technically (mechanically) identical to rolexes. Same design, same mechanics, virtually impossible to tell the difference when you tear it apart. Rolex has always been more about marketing (artificial scarcity, waiting list etc) than mechanics, but…

I have a more obscure watch, but one that those that care recognize. It has signaled me as part of the 'correct' crowd more than once and definitely done it's purpose.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#292

Post by chiefalchemist »

sanderjd wrote: post #242
chiefalchemist wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The vast vast majority of people are not "signaling" when they do things, they are just doing things. I've read Sutherland's "Alchemy" book and that's not how I remember him framing signaling. Long to short, while - to your point - we are not all intentionally signaling, we are as receivers of inputs are constantly looking for and translating random input into signals. The point being, whether you like it or not, y…

> His is a very counter "conventional wisdom" mindset. That appeals to me. This is basically what I see going on here, and what I mean by "the iamverysmart crowd" (which to be clear: I am a part of). We overindex on this kind of counter conventional wisdom because it's more interesting. But I think it's more often the case that the boring conventional wisdom is closer to the mark.

You'd have to read the book.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#293

Post by rasz »

aix1 wrote: post #180
lotsofpulp wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, the Land Cruiser will be passed down for many generations, so the amortized cost of a Land Cruiser is not expensive. Also, Land Cruiser has apparently been discontinued.

> the Land Cruiser will be passed down for many generations Wait, what sort of longevity are we taking about? 15 years? 20? I don't think we humans can reproduce quickly enough for that to span "many generations". :-)

Vintage Land Cruiser is even bigger status symbol.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#294

Post by cyann »

jhrmnn wrote: post #230
cma wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about riding a $10,000 bike to work?

Are there 10k commute bikes? I doubt people take 10k pro road bikes to work

These: https://www.stromerbike.com/en/models/stromer-st7-launch-edi...

Starting at USD 13 400.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#295

Post by pfisherman »

onetimeusename wrote: post #290
steveBK123 wrote: post #47

"An example from Ogilvy Vice Chairman Rory Sutherland: If you’re a top executive, turning up to work on a bicycle is a high-status activity because it was a choice and not a necessity. But if you work at Pizza Hut, turning up on a bike means you can’t afford a car." This tidbit reminds me of a similar anecdote (that my experience aligns with) re: the modern upper class that wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW i…

Rolex hatred seems like it is about expressing contempt towards the previous establishment. Presidents used to wear them (still do actually) but it's not uncommon to see very rich politicians wearing very cheap watches probably deliberately. Same goes for suit wearing. I think pg wrote an article on his blog about how suit wearing was for people who thought like conformists and obviously being a conformist was not fo…

> Wearing a suit to a tech company will probably get you ostracized even if you just like wearing suits.

Not true. If you are a menswear enthusiast who is genuinely into fine tailoring, then people will respect it and even show interest. Generally, having hobbies and interests adds to one’s character. Now wearing a suit because you think it will make people take you more seriously will get you some side eye.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#296

Post by ROTMetro »

moneywoes wrote: post #273
mozman wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a $400 fake rolex. Aside from the glass not being sapphire you cannot tell the difference visually

From whereabouts?

I got some fakes from a big warehouse in Shanghai. They had all levels of prices/quality. Our corporate guide found the shop for us. They had a whole wall of fake watches of different brands. My ex-wife got purses. I much preferred my real watches, but the fakes were for fancy dinners downtown in the big city in case I got mugged.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#297

Post by borroka »

jonnycomputer wrote: post #5

Boss gives a dinner party at their home for their employees. All the guests show up in their best. Boss is in shorts, t-shirt and sandals.

In my non-U.S. hometown (people in the U.S. are, on average, much more shy in this context, oddly enough), this would have been considered extremely rude and awkward, and the boss would have been made fun of forever.

And not because he was in shorts, T-shirt and sandals, a respectable attire at the beach or pool, but not when other people are striving to present themselves at their best. Putting people down should never be fashionable.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#298

Post by neon_electro »

steveBK123 wrote: post #201
prpl wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One slight different is that spending on your home will generally add value to it. It may not be necessary, and you may not get a dollar-for-dollar out of it, but it’s added value nonetheless. I cook a lot, I personally would like a higher quality stove - I’ve killed one before because I (an)use the broiler a lot (it wasn’t terribly old), but I probably would do an NXR or something. maybe in the $2k. Or a used Wolf/v…

I think most people delude themselves that their big renovations added any incremental value to their home. Usually the cost was financed and thus even higher than the sticker price, all-in. Further, the holding periods are measured in a decade +/- often, so the general market moves contribute more to the sales price than whatever you'd done to the kitchen/bath. On the margin, having a move-in ready home that's been…

>On the margin, having a move-in ready home that's been renovated well enough recently enough, generically enough, ensures reasonable liquidity of being able to sell the home for a reasonable price reasonably quickly.

This is the motivation I have to invest further in what already feels like a generally "move-in ready" home; my "move-in ready" is not others' "move-in ready", so my goal is to find all the objections and invest in making them less objectionable :)

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#299

Post by LAC-Tech »

pfisherman wrote: post #295
onetimeusename wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rolex hatred seems like it is about expressing contempt towards the previous establishment. Presidents used to wear them (still do actually) but it's not uncommon to see very rich politicians wearing very cheap watches probably deliberately. Same goes for suit wearing. I think pg wrote an article on his blog about how suit wearing was for people who thought like conformists and obviously being a conformist was not fo…

> Wearing a suit to a tech company will probably get you ostracized even if you just like wearing suits. Not true. If you are a menswear enthusiast who is genuinely into fine tailoring, then people will respect it and even show interest. Generally, having hobbies and interests adds to one’s character. Now wearing a suit because you think it will make people take you more seriously will get you some side eye.

Which is a shame. Someone wearing business casual is so much more pleasant to the eye than typical sloppy hacker wear. Especially once you start getting older and flabbier.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#300

Post by bnralt »

dilap wrote: post #248
sanderjd wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead, they get slightly pitying looks from coworkers, which make them feel slightly inferior and ashamed, which makes them not do it again. No they don't! Is my point. This is almost entirely a story made up by this bizarro world of smart people who think themselves into circles (and aren't working at pizza hut). Nobody cares how someone gets themselves to their job at pizza hut; the other people working there a…

Check out the song "No Scrubs" by TLC for another angle on the same topic. It's a real phenomenon, not just something made up by nerds on substack. Some people are blissfully checked out enough from social competition dynamics that they don't notice it.

Yeah. Off the top of my head I can think two pieces of popular media - The 40 Year Old Virgin and Cobra Kai - that had a scene where a guy lucks out and meets an attractive woman, asks her out on a date, the woman asks when he'll pick her up, he awkwardly tells her he has a bike and not a car, she makes a "what the hell?!" expression and then says how she guesses she'll be the one picking him up.

We can say that society exaggerates the importance of some of these things, or that they're less of an issue in certain circles. Or that it's easy to psyche yourself out about those issues and miss many of the opportunities around you. All true. But the issues actually exist, and aren't just from the imagination of a small group of people that overthink things.

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