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Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

robkhenderson.substack.com

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Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#261

Post by Tarq0n »

helen___keller wrote: post #70
steveBK123 wrote: post #47

"An example from Ogilvy Vice Chairman Rory Sutherland: If you’re a top executive, turning up to work on a bicycle is a high-status activity because it was a choice and not a necessity. But if you work at Pizza Hut, turning up on a bike means you can’t afford a car." This tidbit reminds me of a similar anecdote (that my experience aligns with) re: the modern upper class that wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW i…

> wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW is frowned upon. But instead they have eccentric "hobbies" requiring $10ks of of equipment, inclusive of "needing" $10k viking stove/range, and $10k subzero fridge/freezer in your kitchen because you are a "foodie" […] Isn’t this conflating status signal with lifestyle? The wealthy have always enjoyed expensive lifestyles and hobbies. In and of itself, expensive hobby equip…

A sociologist would tell you that there is no such thing as a lifestyle which isn't a performance of one's status.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#262

Post by abbadadda »

sanderjd wrote: post #238
nostrademons wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of this is unconscious for the general population, the consequence of mimicry + social cues + emotional rewards. The person who shows up to Pizza Hut on a bicycle isn't thinking about social status consciously. Instead, they get slightly pitying looks from coworkers, which make them feel slightly inferior and ashamed, which makes them not do it again. The top executive who shows up on a bicycle gets no such feed…

> Instead, they get slightly pitying looks from coworkers, which make them feel slightly inferior and ashamed, which makes them not do it again. No they don't! Is my point. This is almost entirely a story made up by this bizarro world of smart people who think themselves into circles (and aren't working at pizza hut). Nobody cares how someone gets themselves to their job at pizza hut; the other people working there a…

You seem to be in denial that this phenomenon exists. I’d suggest reading _The Moral Animal: Why We Are the Way We Are._ Quite insightful. Status matters more than you’re letting on, and the perception of it is subconscious. No one (hopefully) is actively making an effort to look down on someone for riding their bike to their job at Pizza Hut - but many subtle things get registered by humans around us every day whether you or they are aware of it.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#263

Post by mike_hearn »

notinfuriated wrote: post #227
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #145

> In contrast, children will copy every single action, including the unnecessary ones. The example that immediately springs to mind, in the tech industry, is the "Steve Jobs Asshole" archetype. Steve Jobs was a notorious manager, in that he made heavy-duty demands, did not suffer fools, and was blunt to the point of abusive. But he was also able to filter for talent, cultivate it, and encourage excellence. He wasn't…

The Steve Jobs example I immediately think of when talking about imitating unnecessary behaviors are all the people who started dressing like Steve Jobs. Elizabeth Holmes and Mark Zuckerberg come to mind as people who did this in an obvious way. But the 'asshole boss' or authority figure archetype is an old one, from long before Steve Jobs, and it can be an effective motivational tool, although many of us, myself inc…

Holmes yes, so obviously so that people remarked on it. Zuckerberg? The archetype of Steve Jobs' dress code is the black turtleneck and jeans. Zuck is famous for his consistent grey t-shirt and jeans, or sometimes hoodies.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#264

Post by hindsightbias »

steveBK123 wrote: post #105
blagie wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing something for pure status signalling is considered crass. Expensive hobbies are not. I think they should be, but they're not.

Exactly. To me, a $500k unnecessary renovation throws more money away than a $70k vs $40k car. At least with the car you are likely getting safety features and extensive sensor suites for driver assist for the money, that have tangible impact on your driving experience. Or Spending 5-10x on a $10k appliance where a $1-2k one would do. These people tend to get the whole set, so it's a good $30-40k worth of kitchen app…

That renovation probably paid for a lot of renovators Raptors.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#265

Post by GTP »

PaulHoule wrote: post #193
AlbertCory wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a fake "Rolex" in Thailand, for $10. It actually didn't work very well. I guess there's a hierarchy even among the fake.

Back in the 1990s my dad's oldest brother went to the outskirts of NYC and was really impressed with the fake "Rolex" he bought. My mom was indignant about it because she sold men's clothing for a living and could tell you exactly how a fake Tommy Hilfiger shirt was worse in so many ways than a real one. Two weeks later the watch stopped running. Around the same time, though, my mom's youngest brother was driving on…

>Around the same time, though, my mom's youngest brother was driving on the cross-Bronx throughway, stopped to help somebody whose car was pulled over on the side of the road, and found the driver had been shot dead.

I don't get what this has too do with the fake rolex.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#266

Post by throw0101c »

ajb wrote: post #260

As always, context is everything. Not all countersignals are that costly. For example, casual wear is common among devs. This signals that our skill set is valuable enough that we don't need to comply with corporate dress codes. Sometimes someone from a poor background turns up in a suit - for example, we had a QA guy who did, having converted from some previous career via a short course. Sometimes new grads come to…

> This signals that our skill set is valuable enough that we don't need to comply with corporate dress codes. Sometimes someone from a poor background turns up in a suit

And then there's Vint Cerf.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#267

Post by segmondy »

tptacek wrote: post #252

It was at the "fashionably late" example where I started wondering if this chronicler of human behavior was themselves human, since arriving late to parties has very little to do with status and much more to do with not wanting to be one of the uncomfortable first or second guests. Late arrival is an expectation at ordinary parties, not a privilege.

Depends on culture. In some culture arriving late is a privilege, since everyone will be there to observe your entrance. Seats, food, entrance will be guaranteed for you. Heck, we see it in the US with the clubbing scene.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#268

Post by rakejake »

killjoywashere wrote: post #167

I was at a small dinner party recently and one of the guests arrived in a three wheel golf cart kind of thing. His other car is an orange Lamborghini Huracan. He got a degree in poli sci or some other liberal arts thing, but played in tech sales and eventually sold a gaming company to Google and has now worked with Google for several years. The conversation turned toward advice to our kids (everyone is 45 to 55 and h…

Unrelated, but your username is genius!

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#269

Post by PaulHoule »

steveBK123 wrote: post #218
PaulHoule wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am into collecting slightly obsolete audio gear, I've spent maybe $600 on the hobby in the last six months. I know some people would think $120 is a lot for a minidisc player since you can get a flash player for so much less. Other people would think it's a trivial amount of money. Like all these things it comes in multiple scales: back in the day there were people who would spend 50x that on audio gear (there are…

I love & miss minidiscs :-D

Used ones cost slightly less than they cost new, particularly considering inflation.

I started watching Techmoan and similar YouTubers. I have some nostalgia for compact cassettes and saw a video where they used a Dolby S deck and metal tapes and made very good recordings... Hardware like that came in around the time I was in grad school and went into a hole so it was "better than I remembered". There are Dolby S decks on the market for prices that seem within reach but the metal tapes are like $40 a piece now.

Optimal cassettes might sound as good or better than minidisc but rewinding is a hassle. They still make cassette decks and tapes but they are much worse than what was made 30 years ago. With NetMD you can record audio from your computer to a MD the same way you do with a computer which is easy: there's something to say for media that let you record your own music so you aren't stuck with what got released on SACD or can find on vinyl (which isn't too bad.)

It still seems silly when I've got several devices in my backpack usually that can play music including the Tracfone I use for emergencies.

Re: Be wary of imitating high-status people who can afford to countersignal

#270

Post by moneywoes »

trasz2 wrote: post #133
cracrecry wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the modern upper class that wearing a $2k Rolex or driving a $70k BMW is frowned upon. There was a time, not that long time ago in which good clocks were expensive and expending 2ks on a good clock was similar to expending 2k on a laptop today, a functional, reasonable decision. My uncle earned a much more expensive Rolex than 2k in a Golf tournament and wearing it nobody believed it was genuine, even a watchmaker c…

Technically a Rolex, however expensive, will always be much worse as a watch than a 20$ Casio. But recently there's another aspect to this: there are now watches that are technically (mechanically) identical to rolexes. Same design, same mechanics, virtually impossible to tell the difference when you tear it apart. Rolex has always been more about marketing (artificial scarcity, waiting list etc) than mechanics, but…

Where can one get those similar Rolex’s? For science
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