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EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

consilium.europa.eu

251–260 of 915 posts

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tax-man and the police state are the oppressors, not the taxed and the prosecuted.

> The tax-man and the police state are the oppressors The oppressors _of whom_? For example taxing billionaires is not "oppression". I completely agree that modern tax policy is much too burdensome on relatively poor individuals in comparison to relatively wealthy ones (certainly given the amount of money spent on policing petty crime compared to catching large-scale tax evasion), but that isn't to say we shouldn't h…

> The oppressors _of whom_?

The taxed and the prosecuted.

Taxes aren’t an inherent ethical imperative, and certainly not something for which we should accept endless government intrusion in service of the collection thereof.

Taxes are an imperfect mechanism for funding an imperfect state, not an innate moral right to spend the fruits of others’ labor.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#252
post #184
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want privacy for regular people, accountability for the rich and powerful.

That is a lot like asking for a form of secure end-to-end encryption which law enforcement can monitor server-side. If a government can differentiate between a regular person and someone rich and powerful, neither of them have any privacy. There has to be invasive monitoring of the regular person to ensure they aren't stealthily becoming rich.

No it really is not. E2E encryption requires this property because everything happens over a channel which everyone (or, a lot of people) can listen into and the protocol is not really based on trust. Meanwhile the financial system is entirely based on trust (between individuals, banks, individuals and institutions, etc) and people have to place their trust in someone at some point (even very rich people doing very dodgy things with their assets have to trust their bankers at e.g. - perhaps somewhat unwisely - Credit Suisse et al.)

The cryptocurrency crowd would like to avoid having to trust anyone ever (but, well, if you look at the systems they design, they're very centralised and rely on networks of trust between lots of people; even within the supposedly iron-clad set of technical rules it's impossible to encode reality, hardly surprising that it's impossible to even encode mathematics in a set of logical rules).

The thing that we're missing is that (at least in my opinion) the reason privacy is important to people is that it is a necessary condition for expressing their personality; ability to buy a sex toy without anyone else knowing about it - sure? Same thing about e.g. visiting a gay club and buying a drink if you live in a very (conservative) Christian community. Ability to move a billion dollars into an offshore jurisdiction to avoid paying on tax on it? I personally wouldn't say this is integral to the right to self-expression.

> If a government can differentiate between a regular person and someone rich and powerful, neither of them have any privacy. There has to be invasive monitoring of the regular person to ensure they aren't stealthily becoming rich.

This is not really true; you don't have to start with the person and locate all their assets. Instead you start with the _assets_ and locate the people who own them (e.g. you see a mystery yacht, and you try to trace the owner).

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#253
'By limiting large cash payments, the EU will make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money. '

Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'.

People pay taxes in order to have their bureaucrats serve them by creating a safe financial and social environment, not to have them assume everyone is a criminal/terrorist and greatly impede access to their assets based on that logic.

The EU (formerly the 'common market') has become an authoritarian, autocratic monster.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The tax-man and the police state are the oppressors The oppressors _of whom_? For example taxing billionaires is not "oppression". I completely agree that modern tax policy is much too burdensome on relatively poor individuals in comparison to relatively wealthy ones (certainly given the amount of money spent on policing petty crime compared to catching large-scale tax evasion), but that isn't to say we shouldn't h…

> The oppressors _of whom_? The taxed and the prosecuted. Taxes aren’t an inherent ethical imperative, and certainly not something for which we should accept endless government intrusion in service of the collection thereof. Taxes are an imperfect mechanism for funding an imperfect state, not an innate moral right to spend the fruits of others’ labor.

> The taxed and the prosecuted.

You said this before but which taxed people and which prosecuted are you thinking of?

> Taxes aren’t an inherent ethical imperative

Even if this is not true, there are certainly a number of pragmatic reasons to support them (it turns out it's much nicer to live somewhere where there is a fair and just judicial system, a functioning education system, roads/bridges/etc, internet, clean water, sewage systems and social protection for the less fortunate and well off).

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#255
post #235
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You open a bank account and start "selling an item/service valued at 1K to a thousand anonymous customers who paid with cash" and you'll come up against KYC and have your account flagged regardless. That's what would be stopping you; existing anti-money laundering systems. This is then how things like this are enforced.

You mean a bank will demand to know information about the customers of a business that has an account with them? I personally already run a business and my bank has never wanted any info from me about my business's customers. Sure they know me well, but not my customers. Are you saying this is an exception?

It's already done without you being involved. Governments know who's transacted with you already as the banks tell them.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#256

This is obviously the first part of a major push to force us to use Central Bank Digital Currencies. Now that they are banning cash, we will be controlled like never before. This is the beginning of the end of freedom.

Let's be honest for a second. There are very few instances where a person would ever 'need' to pay for something over €10k in physical cash?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#257

'By limiting large cash payments, the EU will make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money. ' Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'. People pay taxes in order to have their bureaucrats serve them by creating a safe financial and social environment, not to have them assume everyone is a criminal/terrorist and greatly impede access to their as…

In what circumstances have you or someone you known ever needed to pay for something over €10k in cash?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please be clearer? Please also expand the assumptions - you are being too obscure.

I think he's alluding to the fact that Germans use cash almost all of the time.

and I confirm it is a correct statement.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#259
post #256

This is obviously the first part of a major push to force us to use Central Bank Digital Currencies. Now that they are banning cash, we will be controlled like never before. This is the beginning of the end of freedom.

Let's be honest for a second. There are very few instances where a person would ever 'need' to pay for something over €10k in physical cash?

A vehicle, a house...

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#260
post #28

> Terrorists and those who finance them are not welcome in Europe. In order to launder dirty money, criminal individuals and organisations had to look for loopholes in our existing rules which are already quite strict. Russian mafia is living in billion dollar mansions all around EU in the open, with full knowledge of EU 3 letter services. Why would anybody go for "retail" laundering when you can buy a bank for a poc…

> Russian mafia is living in billion dollar mansions all around EU in the open, with full knowledge of EU 3 letter services.

Those people hide their assets in swiss banks, along with dictators and corrupt politicians.

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