EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments • Hacker News Board

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#221

Post by orthoxerox » Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 9:45 PM UTC

newaccount74 wrote: post #179

retinaros wrote: post #125

its always to fight corruption and trafficing right?

I'm pretty sure a big goal is to fight tax evasion. I can't speak for all of EU, but here in Austria tax evasion is very common. For example, it's still extremely common to pay contractors under the table. They will ask you if you need an invoice, and the price will be a lot lower if you don't. Another example are restaurants. For a few years it has been required that restaurants always provide you with a receipt, bu…

> I really don't see any reason why you would need 10k€ cash payments if not for tax evasion.

To avoid banking fees?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#222

Post by catiopatio » Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 9:46 PM UTC

sealeck wrote: post #215

Gatsky wrote: post #176

Capital controls are one of the elements of financial repression. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_repression

You have to analyse at the population here; capital controls are useful for preventing people who have accumulated sizeable asset holdings in country X from moving them to a jurisdiction Y where there are effectively no taxes. Of course this reduces the freedom of the people who control these assets, but there is a common fallacy (usually introduced by the very same people) where they claim that liberty (in the abstr…

The tax-man and the police state are the oppressors, not the taxed and the prosecuted.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#223

Post by Teandw » Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 9:46 PM UTC

Canada wrote: post #93

Havoc wrote: post #5

This one kinda makes sense to me. Can't really think of any good legitimate use cases for large amounts of cash. Closest I can think of say a bar or something similarly cash heavy getting cash and paying suppliers directly. (which is in itself problematic @ tax)

I want to be able to pay for at least a year of rent without relying on a bank. I want to be able to pay for as much as possible without leaving any record with a third party if I don't want to. I also want to be able to take all of my money out of the bank and keep it for myself, and give it to whoever I want, whenever I want, without having anyone's permission to do so, or reporting that I have done so to anyone. W…

It's quite simple really.

Because the vast majority of people that want to do those things, are wanting to get away with doing bad things and/or not paying their way correctly in society.

You may be a rare outlier but there has to be precautions.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#224

Post by sealeck » Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 9:51 PM UTC

catiopatio wrote: post #222

sealeck wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to analyse at the population here; capital controls are useful for preventing people who have accumulated sizeable asset holdings in country X from moving them to a jurisdiction Y where there are effectively no taxes. Of course this reduces the freedom of the people who control these assets, but there is a common fallacy (usually introduced by the very same people) where they claim that liberty (in the abstr…

The tax-man and the police state are the oppressors, not the taxed and the prosecuted.

> The tax-man and the police state are the oppressors

The oppressors _of whom_? For example taxing billionaires is not "oppression". I completely agree that modern tax policy is much too burdensome on relatively poor individuals in comparison to relatively wealthy ones (certainly given the amount of money spent on policing petty crime compared to catching large-scale tax evasion), but that isn't to say we shouldn't have taxes!

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#225

Post by AHappyCamper » Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 9:51 PM UTC

This is obviously the first part of a major push to force us to use Central Bank Digital Currencies. Now that they are banning cash, we will be controlled like never before. This is the beginning of the end of freedom.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#226

Post by grishka » Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 9:51 PM UTC

Teandw wrote: post #180

Strom wrote: post #174

Can someone explain to me how this 10K EUR limit can be enforced? What will stop the launderer from selling an item/service valued at 1K to a thousand anonymous customers who paid with cash? Surely they're not going to demand KYC for every tiny cash transaction? If they aren't, I can't see a limit to the number of fake customers you can come up with. Or is this just meant for cases where the business is already under…

You open a bank account and start "selling an item/service valued at 1K to a thousand anonymous customers who paid with cash" and you'll come up against KYC and have your account flagged regardless. That's what would be stopping you; existing anti-money laundering systems. This is then how things like this are enforced.

But that implies that you're using the bank system in the first place. What if you don't?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#227

Post by Teandw » Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 9:51 PM UTC

eddsh1994 wrote: post #206

I know someone in England who paid for their houses construction by going to an ATM and maxing out the cash withdrawal per card, putting the cash in a bin bag, and giving it to the builders on a daily basis. I don't believe it'd be realistically possible to stop this from occurring.

Your friend is lying to you. If you do this enough times, the bank automatically flags the account for money laundering. It's very basic and standard money laundering procedures.

"I don't believe it'd be realistically possible to stop this from occurring." - It already happens and is already stopped so you're wrong on that one.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#228

Post by defaulter4once » Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 9:51 PM UTC

dbspin wrote: post #218

defaulter4once wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is a boon for the mercantile class. It's by design... ;-)

It lifted my country as well as dozens of others out of developing world status. There's a huge delta in national wealth between post soviet nations who joined the EU and those that didn't for example. A rising tide raises all boats.

Your reply sounds like a cheerleader chant. :D Did the common person benefit from this "lift" that you mention or merely the technocrat who was willing to do the bidding of the new master?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#229

Post by TillE » Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 9:52 PM UTC

orthoxerox wrote: post #221

newaccount74 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure a big goal is to fight tax evasion. I can't speak for all of EU, but here in Austria tax evasion is very common. For example, it's still extremely common to pay contractors under the table. They will ask you if you need an invoice, and the price will be a lot lower if you don't. Another example are restaurants. For a few years it has been required that restaurants always provide you with a receipt, bu…

> I really don't see any reason why you would need 10k€ cash payments if not for tax evasion. To avoid banking fees?

There are no fees for bank transfers in Europe.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#230

Post by prox » Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 9:52 PM UTC

catiopatio wrote: post #222

sealeck wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to analyse at the population here; capital controls are useful for preventing people who have accumulated sizeable asset holdings in country X from moving them to a jurisdiction Y where there are effectively no taxes. Of course this reduces the freedom of the people who control these assets, but there is a common fallacy (usually introduced by the very same people) where they claim that liberty (in the abstr…

The tax-man and the police state are the oppressors, not the taxed and the prosecuted.

That really depends on your locale