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Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

latimes.com

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Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#261

Post by TomSwirly »

strawhatguy wrote: post #103
ncr100 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel our government should regulate this kind of speech more aggressively, to boost the safety of the public. The messaging by Tesla has been misleading, yes. There have been many other examples of couching date-slippage and over-promises with phrases like "no promises but Cybertruck|FSD|Model 3|Rockets|AI|Robotics|Neural-Link|End-Of-The-World should be here in two years." Announcing a capability, and importantly M…

No. I stopped at “the government should…” That never goes the way you think it will.

Why would you brag about not reading what someone wrote?

Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#262

Post by gcheong »

JumpinJack_Cash wrote: post #241
gumboza wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He does run a cult. My father finds Musk entirely reputable. I am currently subject to at least a 30 minute call a day from him, a retired model S owner, who has nothing left in his life other than the Tesla. The calls are 30 minutes of him reeling off Tesla PR bollocks. He chased everyone he knew away, speaks of nothing else and cannot see reason or error in this or any of Musk's things. He thinks the Twitter thing…

America is not becoming atheist. People are just substituting God with false idols and cults. That deep need to believe in something bigger than self is not going away, it will always be there, it can be filled with religion or something else. I believe the least destructive way to fill it is with sports affiliation so I won't be so cynic about the SuperBowl hype come this February

It might never go away but that doesn’t mean it has to be filled with religion or something equally as bad. There is such a thing as community and public service that have some actual meaning and benefit to society, they just don’t get as much airtime as corporate ad spends.

Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#263

Post by charcircuit »

bagels wrote: post #58

Tesla's lawyers state: "mere failure to realize a long-term, aspirational goal is not fraud" They intentionally neglect to acknowledge musk's many specific claims that involved specific timelines, as opposed to the nebulous long term aspirations they allude to.

Is failure to meet a specific timeline any different?

Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#264

Post by fnordpiglet »

dangerwill wrote: post #175
fnordpiglet wrote: post #97

I’m been on the fsd beta for a long time now and I have to say it’s remarkably improved over the last year. If it continues to improve at this rate for another year it’s going to be pretty useful. I use it to drive around seattle (which is a difficult driving place with randomly followed infrastructure standards and randomly driving drivers and randomly parked cars) and it used to be a death defying gripping of the s…

Seattle's road infrastructure is bafflingly bad and confusing for drivers. But it always seems wrong to me to assume that we shouldn't improve the infrastructure and make it more safe vs putting half baked self driving out in the real world to overcome it. I understand they want more data to feed into their ML datasets and the idea is that that will improve things over time, but we are sacrificing some number of live…

I don’t think they’re mutually exclusive.

Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#265

Post by poszlem »

maxbond wrote: post #237
poszlem wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not diagnosing anybody with anything, I am merely commenting what I am seeing.

> It sounds like you are afflicted with the same affliction as your dad Are you going to tell me with a straight face you didn't tell them there was something wrong with them ("diagnose them")?

Was what he was describing a disease? Because I don't believe in diagnosing diseases based on a few sentences.

Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#267

Post by TomSwirly »

slg wrote: post #158
crote wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a "9 out of 10 dentists recommend using our product" situation, and cellphone companies have been sued for failing to deliver true unlimited plans. It is being marketed as "Full Self Driving", and the CEO is publicly saying it is "in beta", "coming next year", and "just waiting for regulatory approval". In reality it needs constant driver supervision, is still primitive enough that it is directly linked to…

Your comment helps prove my point because you didn’t stop at just the name. It takes more than “the name is a misleading” to be considered fraud. Tesla is guilty of more than just giving the feature a bad name. If you are arguing fraud, mention those other things. Because people don’t spend $40k+ based off a name of a feature. I can still go to Verizon’s website today and find “Unlimited” plans so the name clearly wa…

I'm sorry, it's a scam to sell X "coming next year" and six years later, not to have it.

> I can still go to Verizon’s website today and find “Unlimited” plans

That other scams exist doesn't negate that.

Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#269

Post by poszlem »

gumboza wrote: post #239
dnissley wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We find ourselves living in a vetocracy, where very little groundbreaking work actually gets done. Critics rule the roost at this current cultural moment. So there's a lot of pent-up energy that will be rewarded to anyone able to articulate a concrete positive vision for the future. Of course people are going to bow down and worship the one guy actually making progress against all odds. The only other person might be…

I think we need to look at the assumptions made. Has Musk and Zuck actually improved the world or merely reorganised it to gain market for their ideological purposes? Delivery or not doesn't imply improvement. Progress for the sake of progress is not necessarily an improvement either.

I am quite happy to hear "progress for the sake of progress is not necessarily an improvement either", as that is indeed true.

What ideological purposes do you think Musk has? What is the ideology he is pushing building rockets and electric cars?

Re: Tesla calls self-driving technology 'failure,' not fraud

#270

Post by bhauer »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #46

Recently I've read lidar is in again, is this correct?

Tesla never used lidar. They did use a low-resolution radar and dropped it because they felt it was holding back their vision-based development. At the time, Musk commented that radar was not useful unless it were higher resolution.

There have been credible rumors of an upcoming addition of high-resolution radar to the Tesla sensor suite, consistent with Musk's earlier remarks.

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