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Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

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Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#71

Post by DDayMace »

Speaking as an American, I spent a summer in Germany, Austria and Denmark delivering cars shipped from California. They were largely turbo diesel and stick shift, and I loved every minute of it. My friend's business had us hunting in LA for good used deals that went under the "old-timer" tariffs.

German roads are far superior in every sense: materials, construction, maintenance, drainage, etc. They pay a price in taxes and construction traffic to be sure. But driving there makes you realize that half your experience with a fancy car will be shit no matter what, if your roads suck.

Driving is really "a privilege and not a right" in Germany, not just a slogan. Last I checked, a license cost thousands of euros and there are many other ways to get where you need to go besides driving, compared to the USA (depending on where you live of course).

That's not to say I don't appreciate that I can buy and maintain German cars and usually spend less money than the Germans would at home, (awful!!!) here in the states, and we have tons of great roads, however the quality.

Any idiot can get a driver's license in the US. This is not true of Germany. The consensus among the Germans I knew when I was there was they are better drivers. (Of course they would say that, right?) And if there was a bad accident, it would be less frequent but bad. Totally anecdotal but that was the truth I felt/experienced.

The driving enthusiast in me could never accept additional speed limit restrictions in Germany, regardless of how rationally the data may argue against them.

It's Mecca.

I always buy used/CPO German cars, with stick if I can get them, and I'll do that to my grave. (despite unfortunate changes to the market against the enthusiast). Love babying them, love the maintenance (really), love the superior feel and handling. :-)

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#72

Post by D13Fd »

jupp0r wrote: post #54

"The actual greenhouse gas emissions depend on the energy mix used for charging the batteries, but as long as we do not have abundant climate-neutral energy, it makes sense to save energy by driving at lower speeds." This argument (often also applied to the size of cars) is something I often read. It's an instance of the perfectionist fallacy. Electric cars are more harmful than gasoline powered cars if the energy th…

> Electric cars are more harmful than gasoline powered cars if the energy they are powered by comes from coal plants.

This has been debunked over and over. Even EV’s charged by coal power plants have lower lifetime emissions than similarly-situated gasoline vehicles.

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#73

Post by D13Fd »

jstrong wrote: post #30

the trend of having every aspect of life scrutinized for its worthiness by environmentalists is getting pretty tedious. octoberfest causes emissions, too. so do birthday parties, and weddings. are we sure those should make the cut?

Yeah, the planet is speeding down the road towards a brick wall and these dumb environmentalists just keep complaining whenever we push the gas pedal a little harder. What buzzkills…

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#74

Post by elvin_d »

jupp0r wrote: post #54

"The actual greenhouse gas emissions depend on the energy mix used for charging the batteries, but as long as we do not have abundant climate-neutral energy, it makes sense to save energy by driving at lower speeds." This argument (often also applied to the size of cars) is something I often read. It's an instance of the perfectionist fallacy. Electric cars are more harmful than gasoline powered cars if the energy th…

FYI https://www.wsj.com/graphics/are-electric-cars-really-better...

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#75

Post by Retric »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #62
MandieD wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you enforce per-driver speed limits? As it stands, car insurance sort-of does this: German policies usually reserve the right to refuse payment if you’re at fault and were going more than 130. How could this be managed for all the non-German vehicles that pass through? How invasive would this be? As a sibling comment said, the difference in speed is what makes for the danger, and the driver who stays well u…

> and the driver who stays well under 130 because he feels that’s safer for him and everyone around That’s the other extreme that is a part of the problem. Both, the speedster and the slouch think their speed is safer for them. Driving too slow for the traffic around is as dangerous as driving too fast.

It isn’t symmetric. Being X kph faster than traffic is significantly more risky than being X kph slower than traffic.

It’s that damn Velocity squared term that always fucks things up.

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#76

Post by rad_gruchalski »

Retric wrote: post #75
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and the driver who stays well under 130 because he feels that’s safer for him and everyone around That’s the other extreme that is a part of the problem. Both, the speedster and the slouch think their speed is safer for them. Driving too slow for the traffic around is as dangerous as driving too fast.

It isn’t symmetric. Being X kph faster than traffic is significantly more risky than being X kph slower than traffic. It’s that damn Velocity squared term that always fucks things up.

Yeah, being too fast can be bad for you. Being too slow can be bad for many around you. A guess. An average, don’t take it literally.

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#77

Post by Retric »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #76
Retric wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn’t symmetric. Being X kph faster than traffic is significantly more risky than being X kph slower than traffic. It’s that damn Velocity squared term that always fucks things up.

Yeah, being too fast can be bad for you. Being too slow can be bad for many around you. A guess. An average, don’t take it literally.

Being too fast is much worse for the people you get into an accident with because it’s simply a more energetic collision.

Being to fast is therefore much worse for the people around you. Slow drivers annoy other drivers, speeders tend to kill other drivers.

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#78

Post by rad_gruchalski »

Retric wrote: post #77
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, being too fast can be bad for you. Being too slow can be bad for many around you. A guess. An average, don’t take it literally.

Being too fast is much worse for the people you get into an accident with because it’s simply a more energetic collision. Being to fast is therefore much worse for the people around you. Slow drivers annoy other drivers, speeders tend to kill other drivers.

Slow drivers not paying attention kill other drivers. As proven by all fatalities in countries without such speed differences.

Yes, I get the kinetic energy argument.

Lack of attention while driving is the real killer. Speed can be a factor.

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#79

Post by Retric »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #78
Retric wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being too fast is much worse for the people you get into an accident with because it’s simply a more energetic collision. Being to fast is therefore much worse for the people around you. Slow drivers annoy other drivers, speeders tend to kill other drivers.

Slow drivers not paying attention kill other drivers. As proven by all fatalities in countries without such speed differences. Yes, I get the kinetic energy argument. Lack of attention while driving is the real killer. Speed can be a factor.

Fast drivers not paying attention are again much more dangerous because they over take other drivers and need to respond accordingly.

Slow drivers on the other hand are being overtaken and so their inattention is rarely an issue for others on a freeway.

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#80

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

nikau wrote: post #67
1970-01-01 wrote: post #37

Related and completely missed by this is the 250 km/h Gentlemen’s Agreement that is designed to limit extreme speeds in Germany. Posted last week: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33816948

Easily removed with a gentlemens ECU reflash.

With which you 'voided the warranty', 'allgemeine Betriebserlaubnis' and any insurance. Which in case of an accident trashes your life, even if nothing really bad happened (to you).
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