I once drove from Stuttgart to Munich (230km) in 1h.
I never feard so much for my life.
Debunking common myths about the Autobahn
31–40 of 173 posts
Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
Those sound like rational concerns to me.
maybe rational, but purely subjective. "Restricting freedom" - the "freedom" to reach your destination in an arbitrary speed? what kind of freedom is this? esp if we talk about a difference of what, 10 minutes over 2 hours of driving time? "potentially potentially taking away a right people are used to" it wasn't really a right (=set in law), it just was not forbidden, just like a lot of other things that get restric…
I'm not sure you're articulating your argument very well. I get what you're after, but no, restricting freedom is not purely subjective. For example, "I can do this today, and I can't do this tomorrow", is a pretty objective evaluation. You're really making an argument about balancing interests or prioritizing some concerns over others. There's an assumption implied in your argument that you personally would consider an appeal to general safety more compelling than any appeal to fahrvergnügen, for instance. How we each weight these (prioritize them) is what's subjective. Your attack on the opposing view relies on simplifying and devaluing it. This is rhetoric to persuade but is no form of "objective truth".
Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn
#33Despite having occasionally enjoyed letting ‘er rip at 160-180 (about 100-110mph), I lean towards a 130 general limit - having a kid changes a lot of one’s priorities, it turns out. The author should have listed the fatalities by 100 million km driven - of course practically-empty Finland is going to have far fewer fatalities per 1000km of road than much denser Germany!
Having done 250kmph / 155mph on the German Autobahn I do wonder what why you feel like you should take the pleasure away from other people because you had a kid? No-one forces you to drive faster (1) and when driving you can stick to the right lane (2) and check your mirrors when you need to pass (3).
When I ride my motorbike it rides comfortably at about 160km/hr. For that bike it is a very comfortable speed the bike likes. If I want to rip it can do 180plus. It maxes out at 200km/hr. Even at 200 really isn’t that fast for the open highways where I live. But a huge majority of the driver population has a hard time driving at sub 80km/hr speeds so we kind of need to adjust for the lowest denominator. I think the best system would be one where speed limits change based on time of day and weather. Also perhaps drivers could take extra testing and get licensed to go faster. Some people are just more capable then others. I personally feel very comfortable at 200km/hr.
Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn
#34Eco arguments are what they are. Regarding accidents, making speeders drive slower will not make general population improve their driving. I wonder how many accidents happened because the driver of the slower car didn’t even bother to check their mirrors when changing the lane.
> I wonder how many accidents happened because the driver of the slower car didn’t even bother to check their mirrors when changing the lane. You can check your mirrors all day, but when then speed differential is over 100km/h you may still crash.
I’m usually the one in the fast lane. If the driver of the slower car knows what the indicator is for, neither of us has any issues. You see, I’m an outlier. Speeding a bmw, using indicators and keeping the distance. In a region where every second person drives on my bumper and has no idea what a mirror or indicator is for.
I’m dying on this hill.
Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
Those sound like rational concerns to me.
More rational or less rational than the pro-limit concerns?
I think what you mean to ask is whether the concern is more or less important to [some audience] than the pro-limit concerns. For this issue, there are rational arguments on both sides, but which side one finds more compelling isn't a criticism of whether it's more rational so much as being a reflection of what one prioritizes/fears.
Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn
#36"Fatalities per 1,000 kilometers of motorway"
That doesn't seem like a very good metric to me. There's no way there's any single number that can properly compare driving deaths between countries, but shouldn't this at least be normalized to account for number of drivers? Like what if Finland just has a lot of long, empty roads? Also doesn't there need to be a comparison within the German data on deaths on roads with and without speed limits?
Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn
#37Related and completely missed by this is the 250 km/h Gentlemen’s Agreement that is designed to limit extreme speeds in Germany. Posted last week:
Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn
#38Speed doesn't kill, speed differential does. Any road where you have a big differential between speeds by various road users is just inherently dangerous. If everyone would be doing 250km/h, it'd be safe. Same if everyone would be doing 120km/h. But when you mix 250 and 120 on the same road, it's inherently dangerous.
The issue with ground based traffic is that you have a lot of non-moving objects around you, like trees, walls, animals, etc. So even if all cars drive at 250 km/h, those non-moving objects still remain there and pose an ever increasing risk with increased speed. Furthermore, curves are more dangerous at higher speeds.
Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn
#39Emissions per km completely leaves time out of the equation. Fatalities per year in motorway traffic per 1000km of motorway ignores how many people drive on those 1000km in a year, an empty motorway is obviously safest but also pretty useless. Strange that they'd choose these, given that they're a statistics company and should know better. I believe a speed limit would be useful. Maybe add more Nürburgring-style race…
I wonder how long before they come for the Nordschleife. “Because it’s an outlier on the pollution map and why would anyone want to drive so fast anyway. Let’s ban it.”
At the speed Germany moves, we'll probably have working brain-computer-interfaces by then. Just hook into your computer, load racetrack.exe and enjoy the adrenaline without having to travel far.
Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn
#40Proponents of unlimited speed Autobahn could argue: 1. The tourism value: I anecdotally know people visit Germany just for the Autobahn. (See Nürburgring, which is technically an Autobahn) 2. Sale of performance cars: The high actual minimum speed (from my experience you need to drive at around 150km/h in the middle lane, and 180-200km/h to pass on the left lane). Almost anywhere else in the world, the top speed of c…
Blaming the safe driving of Germans on the danger of the Autobahn just baffles me. The driving style of Germans has everything to do with the process of obtaining a driving license in Germany as well as the strict (and properly enforced) traffic laws and harsh fines - most violations will get you points towards losing your license and in some extreme cases you might even be barred from obtaining a new driving license after losing yours. All that creates an environment where driving is viewed as an activity that requires a lot of attention and farsightedness. Being able to drive fast on the Autobahn has nothing to do with it simply because this driving style not only applies to the Autobahn but also to cities and smaller country roads.