Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

blog.datawrapper.de

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 173 posts

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#21

Post by rad_gruchalski »

luckylion wrote: post #16

Emissions per km completely leaves time out of the equation. Fatalities per year in motorway traffic per 1000km of motorway ignores how many people drive on those 1000km in a year, an empty motorway is obviously safest but also pretty useless. Strange that they'd choose these, given that they're a statistics company and should know better. I believe a speed limit would be useful. Maybe add more Nürburgring-style race…

I wonder how long before they come for the Nordschleife. “Because it’s an outlier on the pollution map and why would anyone want to drive so fast anyway. Let’s ban it.”

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#22

Post by barbazoo »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #10
devit wrote: post #8

The problem with the Autobahn are the 120 km/h speed limits that are there on a sizeable portion of it for no reason. They should remove all the speed limits, not add more.

Most of those limits are for noise levels and surface conditions.

Or for stretches that had high accident rates in the past [0]

> According to official statistics from 2018, unlimited highways in Germany claimed about 71% of fatalities on highways.[86] However, autobahns without speed limits also account for 70% of the entire autobahn network, which puts the high proportion of collision fatalities on stretches without speed limits into perspective.[86] However, the often resulting thinking that speed limits would not make roads significantly safer is a fallacy, since it is precisely those roads that have a high volume of traffic and thus a high risk of collisions that are given speed limits.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobahn#Safety

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#23

Post by aksss »

I'm happy I've been able to drive at high speed on the autobahn, but don't imagine it will last. It's excessively wasteful of energy for one thing. It's remarkable how much more efficiently your car can operate at just 55mph vs 75mph. Driving at 150mph? Quite the gas/electricity guzzler. I could see this killing the autobahn as we know (knew?) it before the safety concerns do it in. The one thing German society has going for it that the US never will is pretty strict social adherence to 'rules of the road', such as leaving the left lane open, using turn signals, etc. If/when that social trust breaks down, culturally, I imagine it would be hard for a highly-populated, high-speed highway to exist.

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#24

Post by KarlKemp »

WirelessGigabit wrote: post #13

Myth #1: is a non-reason to ban it. Non-usage of something is not a reason to get rid of something Myth #2: I've never met someone who is like: oh if I cannot drive 200kmph I'll be late to my meeting. That's not why people drive fast. They do because it's fun! Myth #3: Emissions are taxed. Car consumes more, so you pay more taxes. Myth #4: You cannot push everybody to electric cars and then yell: oh but the electrici…

On #1 you seem to be acce-ting the “myth”?

As to #2, “fun” is possibly the real reason people want it, it that’s just not a very convincing argument. There are also many people who want a speed limit because they experience a different emotion, namely fear.

As to #3, I don’t know what your argument is? People might pay for gas, but the cost is nowhere near enough to cover the externalities.

#5: that data just isn’t available, I guess?

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#25

Post by mqus »

WirelessGigabit wrote: post #13

Myth #1: is a non-reason to ban it. Non-usage of something is not a reason to get rid of something Myth #2: I've never met someone who is like: oh if I cannot drive 200kmph I'll be late to my meeting. That's not why people drive fast. They do because it's fun! Myth #3: Emissions are taxed. Car consumes more, so you pay more taxes. Myth #4: You cannot push everybody to electric cars and then yell: oh but the electrici…

not sure the data you want for #5 is available anywhere or even tracked, since you would have to consider the speeds of all participants involved. I would argue that the given statistics might give an even stronger case because the speed-limited sections usually already have a higher probability of accidents (hence the limit), so being above that already says something.

But having written that, I have no drivers license and no real opinion either way. ofc I'm slightly leaning towards general speed limits (less externalities for me to pay) but overall I'm indifferent.

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#26

Post by justapassenger »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #7

Eco arguments are what they are. Regarding accidents, making speeders drive slower will not make general population improve their driving. I wonder how many accidents happened because the driver of the slower car didn’t even bother to check their mirrors when changing the lane.

> I wonder how many accidents happened because the driver of the slower car didn’t even bother to check their mirrors when changing the lane.

You can check your mirrors all day, but when then speed differential is over 100km/h you may still crash.

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#27

Post by KarlKemp »

devit wrote: post #15
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of those limits are for noise levels and surface conditions.

For noise, they should either build a barrier or buy out the properties nearby, certainly not limit the speed. And for surface conditions, repave the road.

Yes, and throw in free massages and a nice gift basket for the fastest driver!

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#28

Post by touisteur »

WirelessGigabit wrote: post #13

Myth #1: is a non-reason to ban it. Non-usage of something is not a reason to get rid of something Myth #2: I've never met someone who is like: oh if I cannot drive 200kmph I'll be late to my meeting. That's not why people drive fast. They do because it's fun! Myth #3: Emissions are taxed. Car consumes more, so you pay more taxes. Myth #4: You cannot push everybody to electric cars and then yell: oh but the electrici…

Myth #2: counter example: the only five times I was in a car riding over 250km/h were taxis from an airport to another when lufthansa f'd up something and put me on a plane in the next airport. They didn't want to pay for a hotel stay, and I really wanted home. Turns out the taxi drivers got their orders 'as fast as possible' and I had no idea a car could go that fast. I looked at my watch, and closed my eyes praying, and there we were. Every time. With time to spare.

To be fair it happened to me in Belgium several times too and it wasn't as legal and it looked far more dangerous (people not expecting a 250km/h rocket on the left lane...).

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#29

Post by justapassenger »

Speed doesn't kill, speed differential does.

Any road where you have a big differential between speeds by various road users is just inherently dangerous. If everyone would be doing 250km/h, it'd be safe. Same if everyone would be doing 120km/h. But when you mix 250 and 120 on the same road, it's inherently dangerous.

Post reply on HN