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Russia’s apparent resilience is being kept up by policy tricks and cash

thetimes.co.uk

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Re: Russia’s apparent resilience is being kept up by policy tricks and cash

#101
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because nukes. If Ukrainians push into Russia (which to be clear, they can’t for many other reasons aside from weapons), Russia would launch nukes and that could make the entirety of Europe uninhabitable for centuries.

I've tried to stay mostly ignorant about the war for my own health - what has been released or talked about that makes people think Putin will launch nukes and destroy a bunch of land and cause untold death and destruction to numerous countries not involved in the conflict? I'm not trying to be facetious or incidious with my question, feels like I need to worry more about paying bills and keeping my family fed but wi…

> I've tried to stay mostly ignorant about the war for my own health - what has been released or talked about that makes people think Putin will launch nukes and destroy a bunch of land and cause untold death and destruction to numerous countries not involved in the conflict?

Most of the military analysts I have read have essentially dismissed the idea that Russia was planning to use nuclear weapons--there's been no force posture changes that would precede imminent use of nukes. The worry instead tends to come from pundits and politicians, and are probably driven more by a desire to support (or not) Ukraine.

The biggest concern is that Russia has consistently threatened nuclear responses to military incursions of its territory (which is not unusual, all nuclear states do this), but the territory that is included in this nuclear threshold is... unclear. Russia annexed Crimea in 2014, and Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk, and Luhansk in September, but essentially nobody recognizes those annexations. Immediately after the annexation, Putin did another round of reiterating nuclear threats. Note that Russia did not control much of Zaporizhzhia (including its largest city and administrative center), and Russia lost control of much of Kherson last month--if you took Russia's claims extremely literally, Ukraine was already in a position to trigger nuclear threshold response.

Realistically, no one believes that Putin will use nukes in response to military failure in Ukrainian territory, with the possible exception of Crimea. The annexation may have been intended to try to extend the strategic ambiguity of nuclear response that exists right now for Crimea to the rest of Russian-controlled Ukraine, but it probably had the opposite effect (which is to say, people find nuclear response to a Crimean incursion less likely as a result of the annexation). My sense is that a lot of these messages are directed towards trying to get the West to force Ukraine to the negotiating table and ratify the status quo in lieu of being able to achieve military victory.

Re: Russia’s apparent resilience is being kept up by policy tricks and cash

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends to whom. To countries far away, but wary of, dunno, nukes going into the hands of terrorists, sure. To countries bordering Russia who are intimidated and threatened (or invaded!) on a continuous basis, this is a definite improvement.

Not so sure about this. That a handful of aggressive and hungry Russo-Warlords with Nukes is any improvement over Putin.

>Not so sure about this. That a handful of aggressive and hungry Russo-Warlords with Nukes is any improvement over Putin.

They will fight between them with their remaining soviet weapons, since they are not competent to fight any large country. Maybe some of those would actually become a democracy.

Re: Russia’s apparent resilience is being kept up by policy tricks and cash

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that countries bordering Russia are keen to have failed chaotic states with economic problems on their borders. The refugee situation that will create is pretty intense.

I will reiterate. Baltic states, Poland, Ukraine, Georgia, are constantly harassed and reminded that Russia doesn't really see them as sovereign states. They fly bombers into their airspaces (oops), deploys military manoeuvres at their borders, rambles about aiming their nukes at the capital cities. It actually invaded Ukraine for the second time in a decade! And even as this is all going on, Russia happily says, "he…

> They fly bombers into their airspaces (oops), deploys military manoeuvres at their borders, rambles about aiming their nukes at the capital cities.

Your argument would be valid, if this was something exclusive to Russia, and not a common mutual thing between Russia and NATO. NATO bombers just as well fly into Russian airspace, NATO deploys military manoeuvres at Russian borders, and NATO states politicians are just as keen to ramble about nukes as anyone else.

Re: Russia’s apparent resilience is being kept up by policy tricks and cash

#104

The real losers are Europe.

Hello from Europe!

While I agree that there really aren't any winners in a war from a humanitarian perspective, it really doesn't feel here like we are losing.

I'm happy to pay a lot for electricity and gas if that means the Russian government will fall and their army will be reduced to shreds (although the gas prices right now are almost the same as they used to be before the war... )

Also to the US, this is an incredibly cheap (it's what, $50B this year?) way of bringing the Russian army to it's knees.

Re: Russia’s apparent resilience is being kept up by policy tricks and cash

#105

Quoted post unavailable.

> Sanctions only affects the people, not the governments, you just help develop an anti-western sentiment across the affected regions as well as hurting the life of innocent families Bombing also affects people and hurts the life of innocent families. By your logic bombing is a better option than sanctions, as it also affects governments as well. /s

I never said that

If Russia is bombing civils then we must end the war asap

The fact that we don't and let it linger means other interests prevail

My sourced comment got flagged, that's quite telling

Re: Russia’s apparent resilience is being kept up by policy tricks and cash

#106
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're running out of things like missles and bombs though IIRC? No they aren’t. New York Times on 12/5: “Russian Cruise Missiles Were Made Just Months Ago Despite Sanctions”

That doesn't actually debunk the point; it potentially implies they've already ripped through the older ones in the stockpiles and are down to just the new, recently-produced ones. They don't have the production capacity to produce at a fast enough rate to keep the pace of cruise missile strikes in Ukraine.

The argument made by the West, including the US Secretary of Defense, was that Russian missile production would be significantly curtailed due to trade restrictions on advanced technology like microchips. If they are using missiles produced in recent months then that argument seems debunked to me.

What basis is there to assume that Russia lacks the ability to mass produce the less sophisticated components of these missiles?

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Edit (can't reply):

> They've also apparently been canibalizing consumer devices

Based on an anecdotal report from the leadership of their primary belligerent in this conflict. Why is that easier to believe than the idea that they can produce the (very much not advanced) chips required in these missiles?

> Historical. Iskanders have been produced in the dozens-per-year quantities pre-war, Kalibr in the ~100 range. They're using that many cruise missiles in a single day's attacks now; that isn't be sustainable long-term for anyone.

Why would peacetime production represent their maximum capacity? They inherited a Cold War military-industrial complex which was preparing for a large scale global conflict.

> You should re-read the NYT article you cite; it openly states it's not debunking what you claim it debunks.

The fact the article reports is that a missile used in November was produced no earlier than October. I'm not required to agree with their insinuated conclusion. I do agree that the status of Russia's missile inventory is unclear since logically different types of missiles will be allocated for different uses based on their cost and capabilities (such as the ability to penetrate modern air defense systems).

Re: Russia’s apparent resilience is being kept up by policy tricks and cash

#107
post #69

The real losers are Europe.

Everyone involved in a war is a loser. It really shows how immature humanity is that we still start new wars.

Yes and no. For most of history, conquest of pre-industrial agrarian societies was generally an excellent idea...politically and economically, that is. See any good history of (say) the economics of the Roman Empire. Or the British Empire.

That's part of why WWI was so hellishly destructive for Europe - national leaders, military planners, educated elites, etc. really didn't get that modern(-ish) industrialized warfare was profoundly different from "the good old days", and they made endless bad decisions based on obsolete "wisdom".

Re: Russia’s apparent resilience is being kept up by policy tricks and cash

#109

They're running out of things like missles and bombs though IIRC? Why don't we honor the Budapest agreement and let the Ukrainians finish off Putin's regime with US made weapons if we are going to play word games about the difference between NATO and a firm and unambiguous promise to defend a nation if they give up their nuclear weapons? The people of Russia don't seem to want this war, they are conscripted. (From wh…

> The people of Russia don't seem to want this war, they are conscripted. (From what I've read from afar.)

My understanding of Russian politics is that it is primarily driven by apathy: the population will support what the government does, so long as it doesn't affect them. Russian mobilization is a violation of that tacit agreement, which is why it seems that mobilization is being targeted more at marginal groups with less political voice (e.g., ethnic minorities).

Re: Russia’s apparent resilience is being kept up by policy tricks and cash

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so sure about this. That a handful of aggressive and hungry Russo-Warlords with Nukes is any improvement over Putin.

>Not so sure about this. That a handful of aggressive and hungry Russo-Warlords with Nukes is any improvement over Putin. They will fight between them with their remaining soviet weapons, since they are not competent to fight any large country. Maybe some of those would actually become a democracy.

> They will fight between them with their remaining soviet weapons

Says who? They can just as well harass non-Russian neighbouring states. Or quite likely form some kind of

> since they are not competent to fight any large country

That doesn't prevent them from trying though.

> Maybe some of those would actually become a democracy.

Democracy in such states is an illusion. You are either USA with sustainable, refined over time, extremely restricted (2 parties, electors, strong continuity of the government of the selected few) and deeply rooted in tradition mechanisms of democracy, or you are just a vassal to a state with a good propaganda.

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