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Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

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Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#71

Post by adamrezich »

DeetrixDotter wrote: post #31
thot_experiment wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok but like, we don't let the unlicensed drive cars either because that is you know, dangerous to other humans. Some of the reactions you're describing are extreme for sure, but the fundamental idea of refusing rights to people who don't care about the safety of others is sound and important to a working society.

There's a big difference, legally and morally, between not granting a positive right (eg. a licence to drive cars) and violently denying negative rights (eg. meeting with family, being in public, peacefully seeking basic needs, speech). Acquiring a licence does not require an experimental gene therapy with alarming or unknown side effects. As the dust is settling and more is becoming known, will apologies be forthcom…

no apologies are coming. there will not be a day where everyone wakes up and realizes the terrifying scope of what has happened. people will take their learned hate to the grave. these wounds won't heal for at least a couple of generations, possibly more, and even then, only at the societal level, not that of the individual.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#72

Post by jiggawatts »

jfengel wrote: post #52
eastbound wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a large difference between old vaccines and the Covid one in terms of trust.

A fact that has essentially nothing to do with the safety or efficacy of the COVID vaccine. There has been a deliberate ideologically-driven campaign to undermine that trust. Ask a COVID anti-vaxxer to explain their position, and it will almost immediately include at least one outright falsehood. Not a "difference of opinion" or "interpretation" or "risk tolerance", but just an outright lie. And correcting that will…

I love the “it hasn’t been tested!” argument… when a billion people have taken it!

Just how big a sample size do you want!?

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#73

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

nwiswell wrote: post #62
TrevorJ wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do this or you will be unemployable" doesn't sound like force to you?

> doesn't sound like force to you? Not by the state, no. And withholding a job offer is certainly not force. We generally accept that there are a lot of things that will make you unemployable, like having a swastika on your forehead. It's up to the business owner / recruiter / whatever to determine what the reasonable rejection criteria are. If there's a reason someone can't get vaccinated, like an allergy, I'd consi…

> If there's a reason someone can't get vaccinated, like an allergy, I'd consider it a moral obligation for the prospective employer to take that into account.

It depends on the job. If someone can't get vaccinated; and they also want to work with other medically vulnerable people; then they're in the same position as someone who is legally blind and wants to drive a taxi-cab. i.e. While they may want to do it, and it might hurt their feelings to deny them this, it is inadvisable to everyone involved for them to make the attempt. A virus doesn't see our reasons, it just sees warm unvaccinated hosts.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#74

Post by DeetrixDotter »

slater wrote: post #65
DeetrixDotter wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big difference, legally and morally, between not granting a positive right (eg. a licence to drive cars) and violently denying negative rights (eg. meeting with family, being in public, peacefully seeking basic needs, speech). Acquiring a licence does not require an experimental gene therapy with alarming or unknown side effects. As the dust is settling and more is becoming known, will apologies be forthcom…

> As the dust is settling and more is becoming known, will apologies be forthcoming? I don't think the "i read something on facebook, vaccines=bad!! also, furthermore..." folks are the type that would offer apologies, I'm afraid.

No post body was provided.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#75

Post by bryanlarsen »

adamiscool8 wrote: post #56
epgui wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm deadly allergic to eggs, and the only flu vaccine easily available to me is made with eggs, so I don't take it. There are many other medically valid reasons to not take a vaccine. There are even some (a very small number) of people whose religious convictions are a valid reason to get an exemption. The issue is that the overwhelming majority (>99%) of people who choose not to vaccinate, do so for bad reasons, whi…

In my age+health cohort, the known and documented risks of the vaccines outweigh the known risks of COVID-19, but you assume “bad reasons” because it’s not a religious objection or medical contraindication. What makes your risk calculus any more valid than mine? I would go so far as to say it’s anti-science to lump 99% of the vaccine rejectors as “uninformed”. I’d venture the average mechanistic knowledge of these pr…

You have a 1/100000 chance of a usually minor condition. Some have a 1/10 chance of dying from COVID.

It's your right to avoid the vaccine. It's also moral to prevent you from mixing with the elderly.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#76

Post by TrevorJ »

nwiswell wrote: post #62
TrevorJ wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do this or you will be unemployable" doesn't sound like force to you?

> doesn't sound like force to you? Not by the state, no. And withholding a job offer is certainly not force. We generally accept that there are a lot of things that will make you unemployable, like having a swastika on your forehead. It's up to the business owner / recruiter / whatever to determine what the reasonable rejection criteria are. If there's a reason someone can't get vaccinated, like an allergy, I'd consi…

It was due to an executive order, so I don't know how much more 'by the state' you can get.

Just because you didn't see it happen doesn't mean it didn't happen. I saw it happen, and I saw it happen to a lot of people at lot of different companies.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#77

Post by fein »

jfengel wrote: post #52
eastbound wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a large difference between old vaccines and the Covid one in terms of trust.

A fact that has essentially nothing to do with the safety or efficacy of the COVID vaccine. There has been a deliberate ideologically-driven campaign to undermine that trust. Ask a COVID anti-vaxxer to explain their position, and it will almost immediately include at least one outright falsehood. Not a "difference of opinion" or "interpretation" or "risk tolerance", but just an outright lie. And correcting that will…

How about "I'm not taking some experimental rushed bullshit by large pharma corps who have a solid track record of doing shady shit"?

Because the actual human beings that I talk to face to face have this opinion, and not the crazy 5g nanobots nonsense the social media companies and journalists make sure you see that paints your fellow countrymen in some deranged light.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#78

Post by ls15 »

chrsig wrote: post #25
christkv wrote: post #15

Quoted post unavailable.

You get that the hospitals were being overrun by people dying of covid, right? It was to the point where emergency care wasn't available because hospitals were full. I doubt your claim, but even then, there are plenty of other reasons why having such a high unvaccinated population is a problem.

> You get that the hospitals were being overrun by people dying of covid, right?

When I looked up the (official) statistics for my country, Germany, for the peak period in 2021, the percentage of covid cases in hospitals was about 5%. The news at that time made it seem as if it were 95%.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#79

Post by jiggawatts »

andlarry wrote: post #20
thot_experiment wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok but like, we don't let the unlicensed drive cars either because that is you know, dangerous to other humans. Some of the reactions you're describing are extreme for sure, but the fundamental idea of refusing rights to people who don't care about the safety of others is sound and important to a working society.

Why would avoiding the covid vaccine mean someone doesn't care about the safety of others?

The fact that you even asked this question speaks volumes.

Vaccines provide herd immunity. It’s not like bullet proof armour that only protects the wearer! We all need to get it for the population to be protected.

You getting more sick because you’re unvaccinated means you spread it to others. Babies. The elderly. The immune compromised. And so on.

What I don't understand is how it's possible to be two years into a pandemic, and people are still ignorant of this.

Especially now that measles is spreading again because the vaccination rate has dropped below the herd immunity level.

Re: Discriminatory attitudes against the unvaccinated during a global pandemic

#80

Post by TrevorJ »

hotpotamus wrote: post #66
DoreenMichele wrote: post #9

When I was growing up, they counted anyone who got vaccinated against something as a "success." So if 80 percent got vaccinated for X, they bragged about that. These days, we count anyone who didn't get vaccinated as a failure and bellyache about that 20 percent that "won't cooperate" and malign them as problem children who don't have a good reason for their choices. It's a dramatic change in attitude and it's very s…

When I was growing up, you had to get your vaccines to go to school or join the military or participate in many aspects of society and anti-vaxers were seen as a fringe minority.

I don't think conflating childhood vaccines with the Covid vaccines is fair, to be honest.
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