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Nigeria bans ATM cash withdrawals over $225 a week to force use of CBDC

cointelegraph.com

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Re: Nigeria bans ATM cash withdrawals over $225 a week to force use of CBDC

#151

Post by mgbmtl »

xs83 wrote: post #115
mgbmtl wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That rant views freedom as purely individual, and not collective, or more likely the compromises in other to have both. It also doesn't explain the difference between CBDC with traditional debit/credit card systems, which do impose a ton of restrictions to some in order to protect freedoms for others (whether demonitizing a porn site that does not hold uploaders accountable, or reducing tax evasion).

We still have cash right now - that is the important distinction. You can choose to put your cash under your mattress, self custody has always been a thing. Our bank accounts have some legislated protections and even if they decide to de-platform me from my bank account they have to provide me with the money (sanctions aside) in that bank account in the form of cash or a medium that can be exchanged for cash. If cash…

I think that's key, legislation. We rely on legislation one way or another.

As geeks we're always trying to think of technical solutions, but over and over again, what guarantees our freedom are strong and robust democratic institutions that make it possible to address the social issues.

Re: Nigeria bans ATM cash withdrawals over $225 a week to force use of CBDC

#152

Post by xs83 »

mgbmtl wrote: post #151
xs83 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We still have cash right now - that is the important distinction. You can choose to put your cash under your mattress, self custody has always been a thing. Our bank accounts have some legislated protections and even if they decide to de-platform me from my bank account they have to provide me with the money (sanctions aside) in that bank account in the form of cash or a medium that can be exchanged for cash. If cash…

I think that's key, legislation. We rely on legislation one way or another. As geeks we're always trying to think of technical solutions, but over and over again, what guarantees our freedom are strong and robust democratic institutions that make it possible to address the social issues.

I think we are also of the mindset that "If we have the capability to do things ourselves in such a way that removes the need for legislation then why can't we"?

If you lose $500 in cash because you tucked it in your pocket and dropped it you don't expect recourse from the government, you might report it missing and hope for the best but that's about it.

So why does Crypto need such heavy regulation with the regulators saying that "well you need protection from losses". We don't - we need the freedom to be able to choose what to do with OUR money - even if those decisions are dumb.

Re: Nigeria bans ATM cash withdrawals over $225 a week to force use of CBDC

#153

Post by jeswin »

jeswin wrote: post #138
jeswin wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> India's approach was to cancel large-denomination banknotes, but it did not have the intended effect The objective was not to cancel large-denomination banknotes, given that even larger notes were issued in their place (2000 Rupee notes). The printing of those notes were well underway when "demonetization" was announced. The goal was to understand how much cash remained in the system, and to move away from a cash-b…

Thanks unmole for correcting these numbers. (Too late to edit now). - Nov 2022 is 140B (accurate) - Oct 2016 was 150m not 1.5B (incorrect) - Nov 2016 was 1B not 10B (incorrect) The point still stands. UPI grew 600% in Oct-Nov 2016, and 10-20% per month afterwards - to reach 140B as of last month.

Also, in India the dominant digital payments mode in 4Q 2016 was digitals wallets, not UPI. UPI was small fish, but rapidly grew to devour digital wallets (because you didn't have to preload money).

Damg, Sorry. Made a mistake again in the parent post: 150m = 15m, 1B = 100m^.

Re: Nigeria bans ATM cash withdrawals over $225 a week to force use of CBDC

#154

Post by wtmt »

jeswin wrote: post #81
walterbell wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India's approach was to cancel large-denomination banknotes, but it did not have the intended effect, https://archive.ph/ynouY > India’s prime minister, announced in November that Rs1,000 ($16) and Rs500 notes would no longer be legal tender, he suggested that corrupt officials, businessmen and criminals — popularly believed to hoard large amounts of illicit cash — would be stuck with “worthless pieces of paper”. But…

> India's approach was to cancel large-denomination banknotes, but it did not have the intended effect The objective was not to cancel large-denomination banknotes, given that even larger notes were issued in their place (2000 Rupee notes). The printing of those notes were well underway when "demonetization" was announced. The goal was to understand how much cash remained in the system, and to move away from a cash-b…

> The goal was to understand how much cash remained in the system, and to move away from a cash-based economy.

This is absolutely rewriting history. The stated goal at that time was “to remove black money”. The Reserve Bank of India knows how much cash is in the system at any point in time. That’s why we get periodic reports about it.

> It seemed more of a failure immediately afterward, but with 6 years of hindsight doesn't seem as bad.

A very badly thought out and badly executed move that resulted in about 150 people dying does seem very bad to me. The digital economy did not need such a stunt. Also, the amount of cash in circulation has more than doubled since that event in 2016.

The same attitude of “we’ll tell the people what’s good for them” repeated again during the COVID-19 pandemic with sudden lockdown announcements that left hundreds of thousands of migrant laborers without work and without a proper way to get back home (or have access to food and water).

As a private citizen, I would like others not to suffer so much because someone thinks they know better than everyone else and issues diktats that harm people.

Re: Nigeria bans ATM cash withdrawals over $225 a week to force use of CBDC

#155

Post by baandam »

irjustin wrote: post #64
kornhole wrote: post #7

This is programmable money where the government controls how and when you can spend it. It does not take long for most people to figure out how this restricts their freedom. I guess they will make it a bargain in some way such as charging a higher rate for cash as they are doing here. This may be a training ground for other governments to learn how to force or incentivize us to use their CBDC's.

China was the leader in the push to pure cashless society. Cash still works, but only in small amounts. Lots of HNews'ers claim cash is the only way to keep your freedoms, but that simply glosses over the fact that even if you have piles of cash under your bed, you can't do anything meaningful if the government decides to prevent/limit banks from accepting cash deposits - say in a 5 year timeframe. After a while, bus…

I am pushing 50 and the idea of America becoming cashless in my lifetime is not going to happen.

There is no way our law makers are going to want to lose access to cash. No one wants to get a bribe or conduct a shady deal in a highly traceable digital currency in the US.

Not to mention, we can't even get rid of 100% utterly useless pennies. They are basically a form of government printed litter that I am not sure is even worth a homeless person's time to be bothered with.

Re: Nigeria bans ATM cash withdrawals over $225 a week to force use of CBDC

#156

Post by hakfoo »

nicbou wrote: post #63
starbugs wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well.. precisely. At this point, though.. what incentive to the population is there for a central government "programmable" token of value? None

Effective taxation in a country that's suffering heavily from tax evasion. Fighting fraud more effectively. I can't think of any other pleasant idea. It all boils down to applied surveillance.

Two other thoughts:

* Logistics: if you have poor infrastructure and remote communities, you eventually have to send armoured trucks full of notes and coins to replenish those lost to attrition or external trade. It seems a bit easier and less risky just to let people query the central bank from a satellite-based hotspot.

* Universal access: Modern payment systems tend to be for the (relatively) well-off. Commercial banks aren't going to be interested in handing out debit cards and maintaining accounts for people with an average balance of only a few dollar-equivalents. A state program can afford to operate at a loss (and may actually deliver cost savings if it can be used as a cheap way to disburse subsidy or welfare payments)

Re: Nigeria bans ATM cash withdrawals over $225 a week to force use of CBDC

#157

Post by [deleted] »

wtmt wrote: post #154
jeswin wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> India's approach was to cancel large-denomination banknotes, but it did not have the intended effect The objective was not to cancel large-denomination banknotes, given that even larger notes were issued in their place (2000 Rupee notes). The printing of those notes were well underway when "demonetization" was announced. The goal was to understand how much cash remained in the system, and to move away from a cash-b…

> The goal was to understand how much cash remained in the system, and to move away from a cash-based economy. This is absolutely rewriting history. The stated goal at that time was “to remove black money”. The Reserve Bank of India knows how much cash is in the system at any point in time. That’s why we get periodic reports about it. > It seemed more of a failure immediately afterward, but with 6 years of hindsight…

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