Nigeria bans ATM cash withdrawals over $225 a week to force use of CBDC • Hacker News Board

Re: Nigeria bans ATM cash withdrawals over $225 a week to force use of CBDC

#111

Post by r12343a_19 » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 1:19 PM UTC

hotcoffeebear wrote: post #71

kornhole wrote: post #7

This is programmable money where the government controls how and when you can spend it. It does not take long for most people to figure out how this restricts their freedom. I guess they will make it a bargain in some way such as charging a higher rate for cash as they are doing here. This may be a training ground for other governments to learn how to force or incentivize us to use their CBDC's.

Article’s title is clickbait; It’s an anti money laundering measure in general not directly to push CBDC.

Because, of course, money is laundered $250 at a time.

Re: Nigeria bans ATM cash withdrawals over $225 a week to force use of CBDC

#112

Post by r12343a_19 » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 1:20 PM UTC

jeswin wrote: post #81

walterbell wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India's approach was to cancel large-denomination banknotes, but it did not have the intended effect, https://archive.ph/ynouY > India’s prime minister, announced in November that Rs1,000 ($16) and Rs500 notes would no longer be legal tender, he suggested that corrupt officials, businessmen and criminals — popularly believed to hoard large amounts of illicit cash — would be stuck with “worthless pieces of paper”. But…

> India's approach was to cancel large-denomination banknotes, but it did not have the intended effect The objective was not to cancel large-denomination banknotes, given that even larger notes were issued in their place (2000 Rupee notes). The printing of those notes were well underway when "demonetization" was announced. The goal was to understand how much cash remained in the system, and to move away from a cash-b…

All that suffering just so UPI payments go up?

Re: Nigeria bans ATM cash withdrawals over $225 a week to force use of CBDC

#113

Post by nix23 » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 1:38 PM UTC

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #95

nix23 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>After a while, businesses will simply stop accepting cash. So when you loose you smartphone/cards you cant buy another one, open your car, pay for a taxi or even sleep in a hotel because there is no chance to go home? Switzerland had 3 complete blackouts (1-2 month ago) for paying digital. So the sellers had to make list (and hope you come back later to pay it.). If your country just accept digital, you trust fully…

>Switzerland had 3 complete blackouts Numerous places regularly have rolling blackouts now when power consumption is too high. And then there are the extended, involuntary blackouts that happen several times a year around the country due to hurricanes/blizzards ect. 100% Digital currency is never going to work in practice, now matter how badly authoritarian governments want to implement it.

Well power is one part but those 3 where outages from the transaction provider alone.

Re: Nigeria bans ATM cash withdrawals over $225 a week to force use of CBDC

#114

Post by unmole » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 1:47 PM UTC

jeswin wrote: post #81

walterbell wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India's approach was to cancel large-denomination banknotes, but it did not have the intended effect, https://archive.ph/ynouY > India’s prime minister, announced in November that Rs1,000 ($16) and Rs500 notes would no longer be legal tender, he suggested that corrupt officials, businessmen and criminals — popularly believed to hoard large amounts of illicit cash — would be stuck with “worthless pieces of paper”. But…

> India's approach was to cancel large-denomination banknotes, but it did not have the intended effect The objective was not to cancel large-denomination banknotes, given that even larger notes were issued in their place (2000 Rupee notes). The printing of those notes were well underway when "demonetization" was announced. The goal was to understand how much cash remained in the system, and to move away from a cash-b…

> The goal was to understand how much cash remained in the system

The RBI which prints the banknotes knows how much cash is in the system. I've heard a lot of nonsensical justifications of demonetization. This is by far the the worst.

> but with 6 years of hindsight doesn't seem as bad. It kicked off India's digital economy

Kick starting India's digital economy did not require bringing the physical economy to a fucking standstill.

> UPI payments went from $1.5B in October 2016, to $10B the following month.

Do you have a source for this? NPCI has very different figures: https://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/product-statistics

Value of UPI transactions in October 2016 was 48.57Cr, rising to 100.46Cr in November and 700Cr in December. In November 2022, the figure is 11,90,593.39Cr.

> This triggered mass adoption of phone payment apps,

Define mass. In 2016 smartphone penetration in India was ~24%.

> In most tier-1 and tier-2 cities in India, you don't need cash or a credit card to survive.

Ah, the endless queues, the needless suffering, the lost jobs and destroyed lives, all made up for by the fact that the urban middle class now has the convenience of UPI!

> Today banks don't accept any significant amount as cash deposits and there are strict caps on annual cash transactions.

Which to repeat myself, did not require bringing the economy to a fucking standstill. And limitations on value of cash transactions aren't a new idea and predate demonetization.

> Overall, the "demonetization" event of Nov 2016 was imho a success as far as the government's objectives were concerned.

99.3% of the demonetized currency was returned and six years later, the amount of cash in the economy has doubled. It takes a special kind of willful ignorance to claim this was a success.

Re: Nigeria bans ATM cash withdrawals over $225 a week to force use of CBDC

#115

Post by xs83 » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 1:49 PM UTC

mgbmtl wrote: post #41

xs83 wrote: post #29

For anyone unsure as to why CBDC's are a horrendous idea please read this thread: https://twitter.com/punk6529/status/1494444624630403083?lang... Or as an unrolled thread here: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1494444624630403083.html

That rant views freedom as purely individual, and not collective, or more likely the compromises in other to have both. It also doesn't explain the difference between CBDC with traditional debit/credit card systems, which do impose a ton of restrictions to some in order to protect freedoms for others (whether demonitizing a porn site that does not hold uploaders accountable, or reducing tax evasion).

We still have cash right now - that is the important distinction. You can choose to put your cash under your mattress, self custody has always been a thing.

Our bank accounts have some legislated protections and even if they decide to de-platform me from my bank account they have to provide me with the money (sanctions aside) in that bank account in the form of cash or a medium that can be exchanged for cash.

If cash ceases to exist then what? If the government decides that I (or a group) are to be blocked from transacting, without cash then what happens?

We currently have choice - CBDCs will remove that choice for everyone and unilaterally grant governments an absurd amount of power - as demonstrated in that thread

Re: Nigeria bans ATM cash withdrawals over $225 a week to force use of CBDC

#116

Post by hackerman123469 » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 1:59 PM UTC

xs83 wrote: post #29

For anyone unsure as to why CBDC's are a horrendous idea please read this thread: https://twitter.com/punk6529/status/1494444624630403083?lang... Or as an unrolled thread here: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1494444624630403083.html

I want to quote something from another article about CBDC usage in Denmark, as it seems like Denmark is pretty oppositional to using CBDC:

"In a report on new types of digital money, Danmarks Nationalbank analyzes the popular motivations for a central bank digital currency (CBDC) amongst developed nations. As context, Denmark is one of the EU countries that is not part of the euro currency zone. A core rationale promoted by the European Central Bank (ECB) is for a retail CBDC to act as a trust ‘anchor’ for digital money once cash disappears. Denmark’s central bank highlights that its domestic payments are already primarily digital – just over 10% of physical purchases in Denmark use cash – and it does just fine without a CBDC."

Source: https://www.ledgerinsights.com/denmark-cbdc-trust-anchor-dig...

Re: Nigeria bans ATM cash withdrawals over $225 a week to force use of CBDC

#117

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 1:59 PM UTC

xs83 wrote: post #115

mgbmtl wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That rant views freedom as purely individual, and not collective, or more likely the compromises in other to have both. It also doesn't explain the difference between CBDC with traditional debit/credit card systems, which do impose a ton of restrictions to some in order to protect freedoms for others (whether demonitizing a porn site that does not hold uploaders accountable, or reducing tax evasion).

We still have cash right now - that is the important distinction. You can choose to put your cash under your mattress, self custody has always been a thing. Our bank accounts have some legislated protections and even if they decide to de-platform me from my bank account they have to provide me with the money (sanctions aside) in that bank account in the form of cash or a medium that can be exchanged for cash. If cash…

[deleted]

Re: Nigeria bans ATM cash withdrawals over $225 a week to force use of CBDC

#118

Post by kolanos » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 2:06 PM UTC

mypastself wrote: post #102

kolanos wrote: post #47

For anyone learning about CBDCs for the first time, here's a podcast that goes in depth about them. [0] [0]: https://www.corbettreport.com/cbdc/

I believe I have a decent understanding of the subject, but I’d love to hear a good podcast about it. However, I’m not familiar with James Corbett, and googling the name seems to result in a lot of conspiracy-related stuff. Which is not to say CBDCs aren’t conspiratorial enough on their own, but is that an educational show, or is it more politically oriented?

Maybe listen and draw your own conclusions? In this episode he uses fringe sources like the American Bankers Association. He does cover conspiracies, but some conspiracies are actually true. This appears to be one of them.

His channel was removed from social media for questioning the ever changing and largely incoherent COVID narrative. [0] [1]

But if you or anyone else finds a more comprehensive resource, please share.

[0]: https://www.corbettreport.com/mission-accomplished-the-corbe... [1]: https://www.corbettreport.com/sciencesays/

Re: Nigeria bans ATM cash withdrawals over $225 a week to force use of CBDC

#119

Post by andrekandre » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 2:22 PM UTC

lzaaz wrote: post #70

mgbmtl wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That rant views freedom as purely individual, and not collective, or more likely the compromises in other to have both. It also doesn't explain the difference between CBDC with traditional debit/credit card systems, which do impose a ton of restrictions to some in order to protect freedoms for others (whether demonitizing a porn site that does not hold uploaders accountable, or reducing tax evasion).

There is no such thing as "collective freedom".

isnt "freedom to assemble", "freedom to cooperate/incorporate", "freedom of the press" etc collective freedom/rights?

Re: Nigeria bans ATM cash withdrawals over $225 a week to force use of CBDC

#120

Post by LinuxBender » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 2:24 PM UTC

mypastself wrote: post #102

kolanos wrote: post #47

For anyone learning about CBDCs for the first time, here's a podcast that goes in depth about them. [0] [0]: https://www.corbettreport.com/cbdc/

I believe I have a decent understanding of the subject, but I’d love to hear a good podcast about it. However, I’m not familiar with James Corbett, and googling the name seems to result in a lot of conspiracy-related stuff. Which is not to say CBDCs aren’t conspiratorial enough on their own, but is that an educational show, or is it more politically oriented?

I've listened to Corbett for some time and used to watch his videos prior to being silenced on several platforms. He does present himself in a manor that sounds like a conspiracy theorist which is unfortunate because he is actually one of the few decent investigative journalists that remain on the internet. I suspect he presents himself that way because it draws a bigger audience or perhaps it's just his personality. Either way, I appreciate that he does not ask permission from the Trusted News Initiative to speak.

I think this would be an interesting topic in and of itself. Why do investigative journalists that cover taboo or fringe topics end up sounding the way they do? Is it a reaction to the frustration of being silenced? Is it a quirk of a particular personality type? Or maybe it's me? Maybe I am so used to listening to corporate media that anyone who deviates from their presentation style just sounds a bit off?