No one wants to have kids anymore • Hacker News Board

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#381

Post by bityard » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 6:27 PM UTC

unsupp0rted wrote: post #156

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #43

A word of advice to anyone on the fence about having kids: There’s nothing wrong with choosing not to have kids, but do yourself and consult with actual parents for what it’s really like to have kids. Articles like this one, which are written by someone who apparently has chosen not to have children, are almost universally terrible at representing the true experience of being a parent. Yes, being a parent involves a…

If someone could guarantee that I'll have healthy children, physically, mentally and emotionally, then sure I'll put up with reduced sleep and baby vomit. Oh and that I'll have a partner who will stay healthy (and loyal) for the 15 ~ 25 years it takes to turn a child into a self-sustaining responsible adult. But as it stands that's a game of Russian Roulette that I'm not willing to play.

There's nothing wrong with risk aversion as long as it is acknowledged that reward aversion always is always inseparably paired with it.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#382

Post by frumper » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 6:29 PM UTC

fsflover wrote: post #356

frumper wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry you feel that way. If everyone stops having kids the chances for the whole is 0%.

It won't happen anytime soon, so you don't have to worry. I am not arguing that everyone should stop having kids. This comment will not be read by everyone. Also, it's not just my feeling, it's proven by research: https://www.kimnicholas.com/uploads/2/5/7/6/25766487/fig1ful... .

I wasn't worried. Research assumes a lot of things, like how the future will go. Humanity tends to do things to affect the course of the future. It may be that we use less, run out of stuff, or find alternatives. We have wars, famines, acts of god, or even plain old cultural shifts. Not having kids because you're worried about something like climate change that won't happen anytime soon feels kind of silly. The humans in the future will either adapt and survive, or not. Nothing I do will change the fact that life will change and they'll need to adapt in various ways.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#383

Post by notch656a » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 6:32 PM UTC

bityard wrote: post #377

jackmott42 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complete disagreement. Toddlers were completely uninteresting to me, nothing but hassle and pain and sorrow. Around 6 years old they get much more interesting and less awful to deal with. My wife feels the same way.

Sorry you guys had a bad experience. I'm just the opposite: the toddler stage is far and away my favorite stage of my kids' development. They are old enough to communicate with, but young enough that they discover something new and amazing in the world every single day. Getting to see the world through the eyes of a toddler really clarifies your world view.

How old are your kids now?

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#384

Post by fsflover » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 6:36 PM UTC

frumper wrote: post #382

fsflover wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't happen anytime soon, so you don't have to worry. I am not arguing that everyone should stop having kids. This comment will not be read by everyone. Also, it's not just my feeling, it's proven by research: https://www.kimnicholas.com/uploads/2/5/7/6/25766487/fig1ful... .

I wasn't worried. Research assumes a lot of things, like how the future will go. Humanity tends to do things to affect the course of the future. It may be that we use less, run out of stuff, or find alternatives. We have wars, famines, acts of god, or even plain old cultural shifts. Not having kids because you're worried about something like climate change that won't happen anytime soon feels kind of silly. The human…

> Research assumes a lot of things, like how the future will go.

The current expectations are based on many decades of data, when humanity did nothing to stop the climate change. Even starting to act right now will not have quick consequences, and even this is not really happening. Act of God could indeed change that, but I would not rely on it for my plans.

> climate change that won't happen anytime soon

For you it won't, but for your kids it will happen soon enough and may be devastating. Many other kids are already born and lack parental care. What forces you to care for your own kids only? Instincts? From the logic, all genes are already present in sufficient quantities, so it's not necessary to preserve your own ones.

> Nothing I do will change the fact that life will change and they'll need to adapt in various ways.

Do you believe that you actions do not affect the future? Sounds a bit like learned helplessness.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#385

Post by bityard » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 6:43 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #182

jcpst wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you’re focused on these experiences as the defining characteristics of being a parent, you’ll completely miss the big picture. Right. Because that’s the easy part, when they’re babies. At first I didn’t believe my friend’s dad when he told me it actually gets more difficult when they get older.

Babies are the worst. They take so much from you and you get so little back. Toddlerhood is when things start to get fun. Babies cry for every reason and figuring out what’s wrong (if anything) was stressful. I felt that once my kids were able to communicate, everything got easier and waaaaaay more fun. My kids are in college now and I’m so happy and proud of them but at the same time I realize that my parenting job…

> Babies cry for every reason and figuring out what’s wrong (if anything) was stressful.

Yep, but it's important for would-be parents to know that that's normal and doesn't take all that long IF you are being an attentive parent. Some parents can tell by the "kind" of cry what their baby wanted. I could never do that, so I always just went through a mental checklist every time: Poopy diaper? (Usually you can smell one before it upsets the baby, though.) Hungry? Tired? Wants to play? Wants to sit down? Wants to get up? Etc.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#386

Post by Retric » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 6:53 PM UTC

nicodjimenez wrote: post #373

Retric wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prosperity after population decline is supported by history, look up the economic impact of the Black Plague for example. What confuses things is local areas tend to lose population due to economic decline and prosperous areas attract people. However, when the decline is on much larger scale things flip.

History is not a useful guide here. Widespread birth control is an extremely new phenomenon. Cannot be compared to any other era. We are already seeing the impact of low birth rates on economic growth / home ownership etc and it will become even more dramatic as the boomers continue to retire.

Everyone always says this time will be different, but you didn’t actually put forth any reasons why it would be.

Fewer people from war, disease, or birth control still just means fewer people. You need to look at economics after population decline not causes of population decline to suggest why today might be different.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#387

Post by lamontcg » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 6:54 PM UTC

If anyone wants to increase the birthrate:

- Back work from home

- Universal child care

- Universal health care

- Universal college

- Stop calling child support for nothing

The easier you made it to be parents, the more parents you'll get. The existing "the beatings will continue until the morale improves" approaches will get you more people making rational decisions to skip having kids.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#388

Post by drewzero1 » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 7:03 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #43

A word of advice to anyone on the fence about having kids: There’s nothing wrong with choosing not to have kids, but do yourself and consult with actual parents for what it’s really like to have kids. Articles like this one, which are written by someone who apparently has chosen not to have children, are almost universally terrible at representing the true experience of being a parent. Yes, being a parent involves a…

As a parent of a toddler, sleep and housework can still be challenging, but diapers barely even register any more. I hardly remember the sleepless month we had when my kid was about 3 months old. I still have friends and hobbies and an identity outside of being a parent.

Honestly the biggest impact on my life so far is having to keep in mind that there is a developing person following me (both literally and figuratively) and copying exactly what I do and say.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#389

Post by toomuchtodo » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 7:05 PM UTC

stanski wrote: post #349

toomuchtodo wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First one required several rounds of IVF and a switch to a remote job to have the flexibility needed for such an endeavor, second one was unexpected. Got a vasectomy after the second. Experience is what we get what when we don’t get what we expected.

Interesting. You sound like me from the future or something, except we only had to do IUIs instead. No vasectomy yet but maybe this is a good warning.

It’s $1000 to collect some semen and have it frozen for a few years (Reprotech is a cryoprovider I can recommend)). Vasectomies are cheap (<$1000 but free in a handful of states). Bank the tissue and get snipped is my advice. Buys you an option if you change your mind (call for a specimen and do IUI) but firmly insulates you from mistakes or decisions made under suboptimal conditions.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#390

Post by nicodjimenez » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 7:12 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #386

nicodjimenez wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History is not a useful guide here. Widespread birth control is an extremely new phenomenon. Cannot be compared to any other era. We are already seeing the impact of low birth rates on economic growth / home ownership etc and it will become even more dramatic as the boomers continue to retire.

Everyone always says this time will be different, but you didn’t actually put forth any reasons why it would be. Fewer people from war, disease, or birth control still just means fewer people. You need to look at economics after population decline not causes of population decline to suggest why today might be different.

War and disease have existed forever and hasn’t stopped human population from exploding.

Sometimes “this time is different” is actually true. What’s different about now is that you have this feedback loop of less kids -> less growth -> less kids. That’s never happened in history because people have never had so much control over their reproductive rights. Most of your ancestors were “surprise” children - you certainly would not be born today if your ancestors could have just used a piece of plastic to avoid the trouble.

There is a reason sex feels good. People for the most part don’t have sex to have kids. Birth control hacks this process and turns sex from a necessary condition for human survival to a drug people take to feel good.

Like I said this is unprecedented.