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No one wants to have kids anymore

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Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#151

Post by XorNot »

nonethewiser wrote: post #78
somehnacct3757 wrote: post #33

Kid-having emerges. This (western biased) article is blaming the victim. An entire generation bled dry by student loans for useless degrees, unable to buy homes that their elders view as retirement funds. A thousand and one more entertaining things to do online which don't risk creating 18-year bundles of debt. And absolutely no idea how to break the cycle for your offspring. Pick one thing to fix and spend your life…

Being a victim of student loans would mean the borrower cannot properly consent to the debt. If that's the case we shouldnt offer student loans. Otherwise theyre a victim of their own decision making. Of course they have a tough decision and probably received bad information like "education is priceless". So dont ever mislead kids with that crap. Ultimately We can distribute blame and repercussions across society l,…

Ever talked with someone looking to hire? How often have you heard "I just need to hire someone with a degree and ".

My university degree is not in tech at all, but it sure has managed to open enough doors to make my self-learned skillset profitable.

Pretending that people were making bad decisions with going to college is victim-blaming - there isn't a job market out there which doesn't demand a degree, pretty much any degree if you want to be in the middle class.

Some just-so story of how people should've picked the obvious degree of some sort when they're 18, have no life experience and the entire job market can pivot around in 4 years is so much junk to defend an overpriced education system which can't deliver on it's promises and is protected by a debt-issuance structure no other financial instrument gets. Undischargeable loans! Give money away and just don't bother ever analyzing the risk. Imagine a student loan system where the issuers might lose their hat if they don't know what the job market would be like for their investments.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#152

Post by jimbokun »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #9
32gbsd wrote: post #3

As well written and funny as the article is it still finds itself in a tunnel vision scenario because if the population is rising continuously and no one wants to have kids anymore then where are all these extra kids coming from?

Population growth is both more kids being born, and people living longer. We're now in the people living longer stage. Hans Rosling did a simple demonstration of this with boxes over a decade ago. https://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_global_population_gro... edit: better illustration of the point, still Hans with Boxes here: https://youtu.be/2LyzBoHo5EI?t=203

That was fascinating. Thanks for the link.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#153

Post by WaitWaitWha »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #43

A word of advice to anyone on the fence about having kids: There’s nothing wrong with choosing not to have kids, but do yourself and consult with actual parents for what it’s really like to have kids. Articles like this one, which are written by someone who apparently has chosen not to have children, are almost universally terrible at representing the true experience of being a parent. Yes, being a parent involves a…

As I am getting older, I see young couples told to wait till they are settled and are in a better situation to have their token child.

If you want children, do not wait. It will never be 'better situation'. There will be always some reason, mostly financial not to have them.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#154

Post by ricardobeat »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #134
ricardobeat wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is extremely location-dependent. In countries where you have universal healthcare, free education and childcare benefits, the financial impact of having a child can be very low.

What are the birth rates in these countries? If you check (Our World In Data Fertility Rates), you’ll see it’s lower than the US, even countries with strong pro natalist policies. The opportunity cost of kids is just too damn high. When fathers in Spain were given more parental leave, they have less kids, for example. The revealed preference is clear. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/children-per-woman-UN https://q…

“As the authors point out, it’s impossible to draw sweeping conclusions from this observation of a single data point in a single country.”

The study doesnt mention any effect on career progression or any other type of opportunity cost either. You’re entitled to your opinion but this article does not support it.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#156

Post by unsupp0rted »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #43

A word of advice to anyone on the fence about having kids: There’s nothing wrong with choosing not to have kids, but do yourself and consult with actual parents for what it’s really like to have kids. Articles like this one, which are written by someone who apparently has chosen not to have children, are almost universally terrible at representing the true experience of being a parent. Yes, being a parent involves a…

If someone could guarantee that I'll have healthy children, physically, mentally and emotionally, then sure I'll put up with reduced sleep and baby vomit.

Oh and that I'll have a partner who will stay healthy (and loyal) for the 15 ~ 25 years it takes to turn a child into a self-sustaining responsible adult.

But as it stands that's a game of Russian Roulette that I'm not willing to play.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#157

Post by dsign »

ehutch79 wrote: post #67
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #43

A word of advice to anyone on the fence about having kids: There’s nothing wrong with choosing not to have kids, but do yourself and consult with actual parents for what it’s really like to have kids. Articles like this one, which are written by someone who apparently has chosen not to have children, are almost universally terrible at representing the true experience of being a parent. Yes, being a parent involves a…

Real parents consistently make it clear how terrible having kids is. The childless among us hear every complaint and lament about how terrible it is. Why would we do that to ourselves?

This. And no, it's not just the baby stage.

Just yesterday, in my team of five, three work colleagues were counseling each other about how go get help for their kids. The two children of one colleague suffer from anxiety and attention deficit, which is the same problem another colleague has. The third colleague needed to leave yesterday mid-afternoon because his daughter had a breakdown at school. Today he is taking her to therapy, and that's a regular occurrence.

I've started to suspect that there is a silent pandemic of mental health issues between kids these days. Maybe it's the cell phones, maybe it's over-diagnosis, maybe it's because it's too much. Maybe the entire way we do families and child-rearing is broken. I remember feeling lonely and sad as a kid, then I went to boarding school and made some amazing friends and life was so much better and easier. Kids shouldn't grow alone.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#158

Post by pydry »

jonplackett wrote: post #44
somehnacct3757 wrote: post #33

Kid-having emerges. This (western biased) article is blaming the victim. An entire generation bled dry by student loans for useless degrees, unable to buy homes that their elders view as retirement funds. A thousand and one more entertaining things to do online which don't risk creating 18-year bundles of debt. And absolutely no idea how to break the cycle for your offspring. Pick one thing to fix and spend your life…

Came here to say this - I live in London and see many a fellow parent struggling to even have space for the kids they already have (or soon will have). Trying hastily bolt on a loft extension - if they can afford that. Meanwhile landlords are reaping in INSANE rents from anyone who didn’t manage to buy back when that was at least a realistic dream. People are people. The urge to have kids is incredibly strong. But if…

Nail on the head.

For people who have certainty of access to future resources and plenty of living space I'm pretty sure the urge to reproduce isnt repressed.

London reminds me of this rat experiment: https://gizmodo.com/how-rats-turned-their-private-paradise-i...

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#159

Post by incomingpain »

The world has a major underpopulation problem. Not overpopulation like the malthusians attempt to portray.

There's high correlation, at minimum, between the 'paradox' of women unhappiness and the lack of babies. https://www.nber.org/papers/w14969

Though obviously the authors of said article incorrectly see it as a paradox. Seemingly didn't understand what's happening to cause male happiness and female unhappiness.

Then you have sex ed which teaches men they are oppressive sexual deviants which cant be trusted, and sex for women is nothing but pain and misery. Funnily nobody seems to care why women have painful periods... they shouldnt...

Then politicians pushed and succeeded at breaking the social contract between men and women. There's tremendous evidence showing the abusive nature of divorce court or childrens court toward men. It's practically impossible for men to have kids due to the risk involved. Quite a number of men have simply decided not to get into that societal trap. All sex shall now be anonymous on some app, can't trap someone anonymous.

So it's interesting. Men seemingly are happier than ever before. Women are unhappier than ever before. Who is arguing to fix any of this? Certainly not women. Why would men want to change something which is making them happier? I guess Jordan Peterson is arguing to try to fix this but women call him a nazi for trying to help solve their problem. Crazy.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#160

Post by notch656a »

ricardobeat wrote: post #128
toomuchtodo wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 2 kids, I don’t recommend it. Quality of life decline is steep unless you’re wealthy and can hire robust childcare support, and it causes a significant decline in relationship satisfaction with your partner. Maybe you end up happy in the end, maybe you don’t, it’s Russian Roulette in a different form. People who tell you to go for it aren’t going to make you whole if it doesn’t work out or be your village when…

This is extremely location-dependent. In countries where you have universal healthcare, free education and childcare benefits, the financial impact of having a child can be very low.

Those countries just offload the cost of the child onto other people. The cost is not low.
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