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No one wants to have kids anymore

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Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#371

Post by lotsofpulp »

icare_1er wrote: post #224
Lastodon wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To translate it to a more common sentiment: "we'd like to have kids, but don't feel stable enough" or "we would have kids, but can't afford a house"

Seems very false to me. The rule, for hundreds of thousands of years, has always been to have kids whatever the situation, despite much higher risks and adversity in general. Even today, the people still making kids are largely those in the poorest deciles of the population, with no stable home, etc.

Women were not quite in control of becoming pregnant until very recently.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#372

Post by RestlessMind »

unsupp0rted wrote: post #156
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #43

A word of advice to anyone on the fence about having kids: There’s nothing wrong with choosing not to have kids, but do yourself and consult with actual parents for what it’s really like to have kids. Articles like this one, which are written by someone who apparently has chosen not to have children, are almost universally terrible at representing the true experience of being a parent. Yes, being a parent involves a…

If someone could guarantee that I'll have healthy children, physically, mentally and emotionally, then sure I'll put up with reduced sleep and baby vomit. Oh and that I'll have a partner who will stay healthy (and loyal) for the 15 ~ 25 years it takes to turn a child into a self-sustaining responsible adult. But as it stands that's a game of Russian Roulette that I'm not willing to play.

Life never has any guarantees, my friend. You can get screwed any time from any direction. Having a family can add some stress and responsibilities on your shoulders but will also give you resiliency and support you will most probably need at some point.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#373

Post by nicodjimenez »

Retric wrote: post #281
nicodjimenez wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you are wrong about individual prosperity being a result of fewer people. Extremely wrong in fact. In a village of 100 people everyone is poor. Part of the reason US is becoming less prosperous in the last 50 years is because of this collapsing birth rate.

Prosperity after population decline is supported by history, look up the economic impact of the Black Plague for example. What confuses things is local areas tend to lose population due to economic decline and prosperous areas attract people. However, when the decline is on much larger scale things flip.

History is not a useful guide here. Widespread birth control is an extremely new phenomenon. Cannot be compared to any other era. We are already seeing the impact of low birth rates on economic growth / home ownership etc and it will become even more dramatic as the boomers continue to retire.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#374

Post by jlokier »

32gbsd wrote: post #3

As well written and funny as the article is it still finds itself in a tunnel vision scenario because if the population is rising continuously and no one wants to have kids anymore then where are all these extra kids coming from?

Aside from the apt Yogi Berra reference, a lot of kids are made by "accident" by people who didn't "want" to but accept their fate when it's "happened". Oopsie!

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#375

Post by nicodjimenez »

mcv wrote: post #345
nicodjimenez wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse problems than a dying population? I don’t think so. If the population keeps getting older and smaller by definition it is dying. And not dying is the first imperative of life.

The population is getting older partially because we've gotten a lot better at preventing people from dying. And the population is not getting smaller, but bigger. The population is growing and dying less.

The main reason for low birth rates is widespread birth control. People are still having sex. It’s not complex.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#376

Post by RestlessMind »

somehnacct3757 wrote: post #33

Kid-having emerges. This (western biased) article is blaming the victim. An entire generation bled dry by student loans for useless degrees, unable to buy homes that their elders view as retirement funds. A thousand and one more entertaining things to do online which don't risk creating 18-year bundles of debt. And absolutely no idea how to break the cycle for your offspring. Pick one thing to fix and spend your life…

There are a lot of countries where you have cradle to grave social support - free education, free healthcare, excellent parental benefits etc. And yet they have low birth rates. In fact, there seems to be an inverse correlation between the quality of life in a country and its birthrate. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/birth-rat...

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#377

Post by bityard »

jackmott42 wrote: post #235
throwayyy479087 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a kid is the most fun I’ve ever had. Used to go to raves, done bunch of crazy sexual stuff, as well as most drugs under the sun. There’s nothing close to chasing a toddler in a circle for an hour.

Complete disagreement. Toddlers were completely uninteresting to me, nothing but hassle and pain and sorrow. Around 6 years old they get much more interesting and less awful to deal with. My wife feels the same way.

Sorry you guys had a bad experience.

I'm just the opposite: the toddler stage is far and away my favorite stage of my kids' development. They are old enough to communicate with, but young enough that they discover something new and amazing in the world every single day. Getting to see the world through the eyes of a toddler really clarifies your world view.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#378

Post by kthejoker2 »

thr0wawayf00 wrote: post #68
toomuchtodo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It costs $310k to pay for a kid from 0-18 per Brookings. The math is straightforward to work backwards to the income you need to afford that along with your basic needs and retirement savings, and most people don’t have the means. Median US lifetime earnings are $1.7 million. https://thehill.com/policy/finance/3608647-new-estimate-proj...

Not to mention that this represents a very median case, whereas a lot of parents want to pay for higher status schools and real estate to get access to higher status education, it's a never-ending keeping-up-with-the-joneses pi*-ing contest. To raise kids around my peers, a child could easily cost $500k+.

4 kids, no major health issues, public school in a well regarded district, a few activities, company insurance, work from home spouse

My marginal housing, food, etc. costs is for them (guesstimating what I'd spend without them at 60% of my current expenditures), that's $700/month per kid * ~200 month = 140k per kid.

Maybe another $20k each in one off expenses like furniture, medical, birthdays?

A car for the last two years might run another $20k?

Day care definitely drives up the price.

But I guess being able to amortize over 4 kids makes it seem less daunting.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#379

Post by S_Bear »

nashashmi wrote: post #167

Everyone wants to have kids. Everyone. But the whole fear of the future between paying for school loans, divorce rates, rising cost of living, exciting work environments, both couples working, thoughts of day care, and finally the lack of compromise in reducing your class of living is driving people bonkers where children and family are just no longer part of the equation.

I never wanted kids. Hated being a child, my parents didn't want me, but were culturally pressured to do so (Dad: "Your mother got pregnant to try and trap me." Mom: "Having kids is just what you did back then."), and I got trapped as a bargaining chip in a toxic divorce situation. And I have a chronic pain issue since I was little and wouldn't want to pass that on to anyone.

Got fixed in my early 20s with no regrets.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#380

Post by rychco »

meowfly wrote: post #173
rychco wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what universe is a child only 14.4K? Is this the price of a diapers alone? Preschool? Food? This number seems laughably low.

Annually, sorry if that was confusing. $250k over their lifetime.

Thanks for clarifying. Even that number seems a bit low but makes much more sense.
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