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Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

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Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#71
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, do you even know what you're talking about? init does not start systemd at all. systemd replaces init, in a way that I can even select whether I want to use the traditional init or systemd, on boot time, with a kernel option. And have you seen proper systemd integration? I installed Fedora lately, and man, that boots fast. Fedora solves so many things in a sane way that Ubuntu has been struggling since yea…

You're right, I misunderstood the integration. It still seems like it's optimizing for the wrong thing for the vast majority of linux users. The # of linux servers, which don't care about boot time (or where software init is a very tiny part of boot time anyway) is way larger than the number of people using it as a desktop. Boot time isn't the thing that's keeping linux off the desktop. Rewriting scripts and rolling…

> Rewriting scripts and rolling them into a C daemon defeats the whole point of scripts in the first place - the administrator of the system can't make quick changes or easily troubleshoot things (or, optionally, selectively enable/disable small sections of initialization). It's also a large amount of new work for folks busy fixing actual broken or buggy parts of their software.

Well, kinda. But I think this is somehow a weird point to take, considering that much other software is indeed written in C and noone complains about that (grep, awk). It is just that the bootscripts were scripts for a long time, but I think this does not mean that that it is an undefiable law. Plus, it is still open source, so if you want to change samething, just remcompile. As you would do with any other software.

And indeed, the "lower" level it gets, the lower level languages I'd accept there. Kernel in C, Bootscripts in Vala, and the desktop in JavaScript or Python, sounds quite reasonable to me.

And the socket based services are one interesting element. Whether it is a good solution time will tell, but I can't remember anyone trying this before and I applaud people to think in new ways. Yes, a DOS is not nice, I admit, but maybe we should give it a chance? Consider that systemd is still pretty new.

It saddens me sometimes that people dismiss ideas, just because they are different to what is now. One consideeable advantage that I see in systemd that it tries to be a solution for the majority of Linux distributions. I hate all the custom rolled init systems, I hate all that custom rolled network interface configuration, I will it all went away.

One single init adopted init system also means potentially more people fixing one single service file, so you don't have to. Instead of someone fixing just the Debian one, he also fixes it upstream so it can migrate to other systems.

Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So who of you actually read Lennarts blog postings about the rationale? Or do you just dismiss it because SYSV didn't do that, some fourty years ago?

If I wanted non-plain text logging, I'd use Windows. And I like BSD (I have never liked the SYS-V init system).

So your argument is you want plaintext because you want plaintext?

I replaced the BSD-like init system in Arch, because it is buggy. And I can dual-boot init-systems now.

Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't use Fedora?

What's a better use of my time -- converting my 1000+ machines to another distro (which may turn out to be worse) or convincing Fedora not to make a stupid decision?

If you don't like this change, you probably also don't like the other Fedora changes that came in the past and surely also in the future, so yeah I'm with sjs. In the long time you will save time if you switch to a distribution that aligns with your choices.

Plus, you can do a dry-run with a limited number of machines and you can select a distribution which seldom changes (Gentoo switched to baselayout2 after.. years, Slackware still has tarballs as packages). Unlikely that they will push radical changes soon.

Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#74
post #61
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> " or playing audio on a remote computer over the internet". > > I thought thats the point of pulseaudio and really wanted to try it. AFAIK (but I wasn't using linux at the time) the point of pulseaudio was that it was very easy for an application to lock your audio exclusively with ALSA or OSS (and still is unless ALSA is properly configured) and there were several competing "sound daemon" trying to solve this prob…

The right thing to do would have been to fix ALSA so that applications wouldn't lock each other out, or whatever other problems ALSA may have.

They did, eventually, with dmix.
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