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Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

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Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#61

Post by rwmj »

EdiX wrote: post #50
ColdAsIce wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" or playing audio on a remote computer over the internet". I thought thats the point of pulseaudio and really wanted to try it. How can I say... it FAILS at even that! I got it working with ssh and mpd faster than... oh dont make remember.

> " or playing audio on a remote computer over the internet". > > I thought thats the point of pulseaudio and really wanted to try it. AFAIK (but I wasn't using linux at the time) the point of pulseaudio was that it was very easy for an application to lock your audio exclusively with ALSA or OSS (and still is unless ALSA is properly configured) and there were several competing "sound daemon" trying to solve this prob…

The right thing to do would have been to fix ALSA so that applications wouldn't lock each other out, or whatever other problems ALSA may have.

Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#62

Post by ciupicri »

adestefan wrote: post #43
hasmoo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except for heroic efforts by Red Hat, SUSE, and previously Sun, it's mostly a hobbyist affair. Lennart Poettering is a Red Hat employee.

And some argue that this is the only reason why these things actually make it into the Linux desktop ecosystem. If he wasn't a Red Hat employee would they ever make it into a distribution?

systemd didn't replace upstart in Fedora as soon as he wanted, so the fact that he's a Red Hat employee doesn't give him total control.

Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#63

Post by ominous_prime »

count wrote: post #59
LeonidasXIV wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, do you even know what you're talking about? init does not start systemd at all. systemd replaces init, in a way that I can even select whether I want to use the traditional init or systemd, on boot time, with a kernel option. And have you seen proper systemd integration? I installed Fedora lately, and man, that boots fast. Fedora solves so many things in a sane way that Ubuntu has been struggling since yea…

You're right, I misunderstood the integration. It still seems like it's optimizing for the wrong thing for the vast majority of linux users. The # of linux servers, which don't care about boot time (or where software init is a very tiny part of boot time anyway) is way larger than the number of people using it as a desktop. Boot time isn't the thing that's keeping linux off the desktop. Rewriting scripts and rolling…

This isn't about boot time, that is just a nice side effect for desktop users.

This is about servers, and better ways to manage the services on them. A service shouldn't need to daemonize itself, and monitor it's own process via shell scripts and PID files. Having infrastructure to run services (as apposed to just starting them), monitor them, and resolve dependencies between them is a huge step forward.

(I also don't agree with the handling of socket-based service in systemd, but it's an experiment, and maybe I'm wrong, so its worth a try).

Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#64

Post by despite2 »

LeonidasXIV wrote: post #54
adestefan wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's a Red Hat employee so everything he does ends up in Fedora at some point.

Don't use Fedora?

What's a better use of my time -- converting my 1000+ machines to another distro (which may turn out to be worse) or convincing Fedora not to make a stupid decision?

Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#65

Post by sjs »

despite2 wrote: post #64
LeonidasXIV wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't use Fedora?

What's a better use of my time -- converting my 1000+ machines to another distro (which may turn out to be worse) or convincing Fedora not to make a stupid decision?

If you don't like Fedora switching away from it will be more productive then fighting it on every change for all eternity.

Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#66

Post by RexRollman »

LeonidasXIV wrote: post #55
sigzero wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, incredible stupid. That means it will go into Fedora.

So who of you actually read Lennarts blog postings about the rationale? Or do you just dismiss it because SYSV didn't do that, some fourty years ago?

If I wanted non-plain text logging, I'd use Windows. And I like BSD (I have never liked the SYS-V init system).

Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#67

Post by nate_meurer »

LeonidasXIV wrote: post #55
sigzero wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, incredible stupid. That means it will go into Fedora.

So who of you actually read Lennarts blog postings about the rationale? Or do you just dismiss it because SYSV didn't do that, some fourty years ago?

I read it. The benefits are awfully dubious, and the downside is significant. It reinvents a wheel in the most literal sense. It claims to fix problems that are already addressed, or are easily addressable, in the current implementation and derivatives like rsyslog.

Lennart's not even planning on documenting the format.

Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#68

Post by [deleted] »

ColdAsIce wrote: post #44
toyg wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

monopolistic behaviour and a solid, conservative set of well-documented APIs.

Why would a hardware vendor care about APIs or monopolistic behaviour? Why would a hardware vendor make a deal which said vendor can only use this software on the hardware they make but not other?

[deleted]

Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#69

Post by nate_meurer »

ColdAsIce wrote: post #44
toyg wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

monopolistic behaviour and a solid, conservative set of well-documented APIs.

Why would a hardware vendor care about APIs or monopolistic behaviour? Why would a hardware vendor make a deal which said vendor can only use this software on the hardware they make but not other?

Unless I am misunderstanding you, your second question makes it appear that you didn't read the material cited in spot's response to your earlier post. If I'm wrong, could you perhaps rephrase your question?

Re: Anti Leonard Poettering petition: Stop writing useless linux programs.

#70

Post by tene »

andrewcooke wrote: post #23
stephen_g wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason people hated PulseAudio was because Ubuntu shipped it as their default sound system a year or two before it was ready. Now it's a pretty mature sound system that works well (at least with all the Linux hardware I have)...

i don't have an opinion on the larger fight here, but you have to disable pulseaudio if you want a fast startup in opensuse 12.1 (otherwise there's a 30s pause when the desktop starts). disabled, everything seems fine.

FWIW, my laptop, running Fedora, boots to the desktop in 15s total, with pulseaudio. I would sooner attribute that to a problem with the suse init system (every time I've dug into the suse init scripts, I've found horribly absurd decisions) than I would pulseaudio.
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