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Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

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Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#441
post #180

A lot of people in the comments are making a hard distinction between AI garbage/bullshit and the pure/genuine human-created thing, and the various ways in which we can keep this distinction alive. If only that was true, the bullshit part. You should start living with the idea that the AI generated content is NOT bullshit, because we're either already there or very close to it. The AI content will be of value, look g…

But you out the solution right there in your prediction. We need updated licenses that forbid the use in AI training and real teeth if it can be shown that content was illegally used in a training set. It might be too late with the amount of data already ingested, but, hell, second best time to plant a tree and all that.

I'm not even sure how copyright will work with AI generated content. How is the copyright distributed amongst the program, the programmer, the company distributing the program, the user that enters the input, the author that wrote the input, the authors of content ingested by the program, etc.

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s only a problem that large numbers are easily duped no matter how much education we give them when it’s also coupled with no-questions-asked universal suffrage.

It depends in part on the quality of what is passed off as education. After twelve years of US public education in the 1970’s and 80’s, not once did critical thinking tools, types and sources of bias, and default-mode skepticism come up. I’d rather work on improving that, rather than making it even harder for citizens to vote.

And the #1 way to improve educational outcomes is to figure out how to attract better candidates to be elementary teachers, NOT curriculum micromanagement (whether from elected school boards or directly from parents)

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#443

In just the past couple of weeks, I've noticed lots of machine generated cooking recipes. They follow the typical SEO pandering blog format, where there's an unnecessary story about the author's trip somewhere or their child's school play being the inspiration for making this particular recipe, followed by the actual recipe details. The machine generated stories are even more pointless and meandering than what humans…

there's a paper that basically shows these LLMs are pretty much tapped out in terms of quality data to train on, not sure if there are any legit architecture improvements in the works to improve results quality but it seems brute force training with more data may be about over - https://arxiv.org/pdf/2211.04325.pdf As for SEO, Google is going to have to stop being lazy and relying so much on backlinks and domain auth…

They had upvotes working before! Just bring back google+! I found it incredibly useful to land on a page and see a high upvote in the little plugin widget I had in Chrome.

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#444
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s weird how readily so many people will dismiss AI art as just being a product of its input, when that’s really all humans are as well. All artists (myself included) are just the ongoing product of various inspirations (inputs). Dali is a world-renowned artist, but his art wasn’t born in a bubble and ripped from the void. He studied and referenced artists before him, then changed it. Artists who saw his work later…

This is a tricky distinction where this may be true of all specific individual humans, but not of humanity. At some point, language and art didn't exist, and humanity invented those things. We didn't mimic some other civilization that did it first. I don't know that this distinction matters, but it is real. Even on an individual level, if you raise a child in complete isolation from history and teach them no language…

I think this is the big open question of evolution as a whole, and language and art can be seen as the evolution of ideas/memes as Dawkin wrote about in the Selfish Gene. Were these developments sufficiently iterative, or was there some great leap that came out of nowhere? Was the wing merely just a stump on an animal that allowed it to leap tree to tree a foot further, or was it some process unknown to us? Was art just a splatter of blood on a cave that looked like a face to our brain’s face neural network, or did some inventive genius paint a mosaic when nothing else was ever on the cave wall?

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I search for “best gaming laptop” or “taco recipe” the results are pretty much uniformly spammy across Google, Bing, and Neeva, the latter being a paid search engine. I believe you will find results on Kagi less spammy https://kagi.com/search?q=best+gaming+laptop&r=us&sh=HJrdZzD... (Kagi is also a paid search engine that requires an accunt, the above is publicly shared search) Removing, downranking and classyfin…

Great to hear from someone fighting the good fight! In your opinion, is the internet just spammy now, or is something else going on?

Internet is extremly spammy and it is a result of ad-based monetization which provides incentive for the spam to be created. Luckilly an efficient mechanism to detect most such spam is to measure number of ads on a site and then downrank such results, which is what we do.

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#447
post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going off your point, even if we aren't quite there yet, there is no reason to suppose that AI won't eventually be massively better at basically ALL things than humans - that's certain the direction we're headed, and very quickly too. This is just the very beginning of the problem. It's time for people to start thinking about how to live in a world where they are "obsolete". All jobs, or, being conservative, at least…

I actually strongly disagree here with the conclusion you make. I think these are going to be tools that enhance the human mind. It’ll enable the average person to be exceptional by using the AI as guidance. It’ll enable the brilliant to exploit the AIs in novel and clever ways that were not possible before. The humans place is in the use of a tool, the tool doesn’t replace the human. The challenge will be instead is…

I'm not too attached to my conclusion, in fact I hope it's not true, and have also thought about what you said. But I am convinced that, eventually, humans will be capable of making autonomous AI advanced enough to "replace" them, and I am NOT convinced that humans will choose not to - especially given the fact that over enough time people will slowly allow AI to control more and more of their lives and the world. Then the next generation of people will grow up accustomed to this level of invasiveness and think it normal, and trade off more of their freedom to AI in exchange for more convenience and comfort.

As for the concern about whether there will be enough useful work to keep everyone paid. Eventually the answer is definitely no in my opinion, just a matter of how far out that is, but I don't think whether there will be enough work is a meaningful question in that world. If AI is good enough to replace human work then the work is still being done - in fact MORE work is probably being done, and therefore more goods/resources(post-scarcity as you said). It's a question of whether humans can distribute those resources fairly - this question and problem remains the same whether people need to work or not. We already have more than enough resources to keep everyone in the world fed and comfortable, assuming we don't destroy the planet this will only be more true when the AI work force comes into play.

It's easy to assume that in such a world there will be enough resources for everyone to live very comfortably while the higher class still has extremely excessive control over resources, and as such it's not likely that greed(the main obstacle to a fair outcome) would have to come into play, as the rich and power-hungry can have everything they want without having to allow poor people to starve to death.

Unfortunately I'm not convinced that assumption is valid either though, because of the fact that the psychological factor driving the greed of the ultra-rich isn't the desire for material possessions and wealth in itself, but to have "more" - more stuff, more capital, more power, than others. They don't just intrinsically love 100 million dollar yachts so much that they choose to buy 3 of them instead of, say, saving the lives of millions of starving children. What they love is the inflation of their ego and the feeling of power and superiority. If middle-class person suddenly had 100 million dollar yachts those people wouldn't be satisfied with their own anymore. Because of this, I think the ultra-rich and ultra-powerful, who of course will be the ones in power and who will have the ability to influence how resources are distributed in a post-scarcity world, will be motivated to keep the lower classes "lower", in order to maintain their ego and satisfy their power craving(though they will of course justify it in less crude ways).

To make my point more simply: If Jeff Bezos could snap his fingers right now and magically make every single person on earth exactly as rich as he is, give them all the same resources and material possessions, at no cost to himself, I am quite convinced he would not do it. This is a simpler version of the exact same decisions those in power will have to make over the next centuries - and in their case it will probably be easier to justify to themselves as it won't be so black and white as denying fortune to billions of people at no cost: that will be exactly what they're doing, but over the course of many small decisions that is each justifiable in it's own way, such that they never have to realize that that is exactly what they're doing

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mincemeat can be vegetarian but it traditionally contains suet.

I still nurse disappointment, mixed with a hint of resentment, going back to the age of maybe 3 or 4 years old that mince pies contain mincemeat (which is fruit, not meat) rather than minced beef. In the view of my 4 year old mind, and frankly my 40-something year old mind, the names of ingredients and dishes ought not to provide a misleading impression of what they might be made out of. "Mincemeat" still feels a lit…

Mincemeat on sweetbread? Sounds delicious!

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#449
This text captures how I felt about this stuff, but could not put it in words. The "art" feels empty, repetitive, derivative. The text sounds like BS, like a student trying to make up the answer as they go. Today someone in my work channel posted a ChatGPT's text about our company and ompetitors. It was all wrong, but sounds "probable".

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GMO food supporters point out that GMOs help us feed more people That seems like an odd thing to point out to me. More people is not an obviously positive thing for us or the planet. And we have enough food and wealth for everyone as it is. If feeding more people were the priority, it could be addressed in other ways. I think the primary motive behind GMO is increased control and profit. I guess I shouldn't be surp…

This is overly simplistic and conspiratory. Yes, Monsanto is evil, but that doesn't mean everyone involved in GMOs is, or that's the only motivation. Look up the argument over golden rice. It's also ridiculous to just hand wave away crop productivity improvements with "but we already have enough food." We aren't going to revolutionize global food distribution any time soon, but we can do things that have concrete imp…

> But please don't wave away the entire discussion with strawman arguments.

What strawman argument? I was responding specifically to the point I quoted that feeding more people is important. And I made a couple of points specifically against that position. So where's the straw?

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