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Remote work is gutting downtowns

businessinsider.com

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Re: Remote work is gutting downtowns

#71

Post by [deleted] »

highwaylights wrote: post #19
wildrhythms wrote: post #3

These seeds were sowed when cities cashed in on commercial real estate, pushing residential zoning further and further out of the city. Wake up call: nobody wants to spend longer than they have to on an unpaid, unpredictable commute into the city anymore. So while these downtown businesses are getting 1/3 of the foot traffic that they used to, all the supermarkets and shops a few miles down the road are raking it in.

I used to get the bus to work about 10 years ago because parking in the city became so expensive (I stopped long before Covid hit). The thing I don't miss is that I got sick every single Winter. All it takes is one inconsiderate person to not cover their mouth and everyone is getting ill. And it happened all the time . I had a commute time that ranged between one and two hours over that stretch as I'd lived in a coup…

[deleted]

Re: Remote work is gutting downtowns

#72

Post by awesomegoat_com »

brookst wrote: post #31
awesomegoat_com wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. And I would say the broader distribution will actually be good for the environment as whole. Or at least it could be.

Walk me through that thinking? Downtown residents walk and use transit. Places with broader distribution of people typically rely on roads because transit isn’t economically efficient. My intuition is that higher population densities are more environmentally efficient because more people can be served by any resource. Are you thinking otherwise?

I guess you might be right.

It is just me noticing my own behavior patterns and extending it to the greater populace which is not correct.

I had a pleasure to live in village, small city and big city.

I feel I use much more resources in bigger city. Distance to the mall is similar, but all the free-time activities in the city consume energy. While in the village I mostly just walked the forest and worked on the garden.

It is also much more easier to manage waste. Food waste goes to the garden. Cardbox goes to fire place. Also, water travels only few meters from the well before it is used.

Re: Remote work is gutting downtowns

#73

Post by TimPC »

It’s annoying that articles repeatedly wrongly claim that reduced real estate prices lead to reduced real estate taxes. The method of computation of real estate taxes generates a mil rate which is the percentage rate that needs to be charged to generate the current budget’s revenue. This rate is computed each assessment after the property values are adjusted. The government gets the same total amount of money if property values are high vs if they are low.

Re: Remote work is gutting downtowns

#74

Post by brookst »

ethagknight wrote: post #39
brookst wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn’t a mechanism to “force” anyone. With few exceptions, companies lease their office space. A few companies may try to force employees to sit in a leased office to feed the sunk cost fallacy, but that won’t last. Only the most incompetent management will renew leases to support employees who don’t want to be there in the first place. The actual solution is large scale conversion of commercial real estate to r…

Large office towers just do not convert to residential very well. It can be done, it can be tolerated, it's just not a very good or competitive product, while also being very expensive to implement. One example, People walk a few blocks from the parking garage to their place of employment, but in most cities, people will not walk a few blocks from the parking garage to their home. Adding insult to injury, office towe…

> It can be done, it can be tolerated, it's just not a very good or competitive product

I agree with everything you said, just want to highlight that this quote is the classic statement of a business opportunity.

There is a VC pitch here: a company that acquired distressed office space at scale, from panicked sellers, and with the expertise to do these conversions in a systematic, cost-optimized way.

Banks are going to want to unload these properties as soon as they appear, for dirt cheap. Someone is going to make a lot of money by approaching the issue as a tech problem.

Re: Remote work is gutting downtowns

#75

Post by roamerz »

hobbitstan wrote: post #34

As a side note: the quality of life of pets has increased dramatically since the pandemic. With people working from home, they now have more company and less time spent locked in crates. That’s the reason I have for not returning to the office and will ensure I only do remote work from now on.

That's worth more than a side note. When I was non-remote I drove home 2-3 days a week (1hr round trip) when no one else was home to let them out and spend 30 minutes with them.

Re: Remote work is gutting downtowns

#76

Post by cratermoon »

robertlagrant wrote: post #48
MSFT_Edging wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A place where people live.

I'm not from the US - what is downtown used for today?

I grew up in Houston, Texas. As a kid I remember downtown as being 1. Big office buildings with parking garages. 2. Concert halls & auditoriums. 3. City and county facilities. 4. Restaurants catering to the visitors of the above. 5. Sears & Roebuck department store.

Nobody lived downtown, and most of it was dead after working hours. Most of the office buildings had no street-level retail shops at all – there was no reason to go there except to work, or in the case of 2-3 of them, to visit the observation deck on the upper floor. The small area where (2) were concentrated didn't even have much in the way of restaurants or shops open. If you worked there, you drove downtown in the morning, came home in the evening. If you wanted to a concert, play, or ballet, you drove downtown, enjoyed the show, then drove home.

There was, and is, one unique thing about Houston. The tunnels. There is a network of underground walkways and areas connecting many of the buildings. There are some restaurants and shops, and during the lunch hour the area was packed. But you couldn't get to those tunnels without going into one of the office buildings, and they were only open working hours. Most of the stuff in the tunnels opened at 10am and closed at 2pm.

Re: Remote work is gutting downtowns

#77

Post by bluejekyll »

merman wrote: post #55
Elidrake42 wrote: post #18

A bit off topic; I of course understand that I'm an odd situation and not representative of the broader trend at play here... But moving into remote work inspired my partner and I to move into Manhattan from the sprawling car driven nightmare that was Phoenix. Tiny little studio, but we've never been particularly materialistic, a murphy bed massively opens up the space, and no office to go into means once the day is…

Sorry your Phoenix experience was so bad for you. It's great out here though. Don't know why the top comment is dumping on Phx as if it doesn't have a great road system. Our grocery options will improve as soon as the german discount chains set Frys is not more expensive than TJs [0] When you drive east from AZ, you drive past the cheapest gas in the US[1] [0] https://www.frysfood.com/savings/weeklyad/ [1] https://ga…

I think you’re missing the point of the comment. They wanted to live in a more walkable, bikeable, human centered environment that doesn’t require cars to get around.

You’re making the statement that Phoenix is a great place, and a great place to drive, if you don’t mind driving for your errands, etc.

They clearly don’t enjoy needing to drive everywhere, and NYC is a great place to be if you don’t want to have a car centric life.

Re: Remote work is gutting downtowns

#78

Post by awesomegoat_com »

awesomegoat_com wrote: post #72
brookst wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walk me through that thinking? Downtown residents walk and use transit. Places with broader distribution of people typically rely on roads because transit isn’t economically efficient. My intuition is that higher population densities are more environmentally efficient because more people can be served by any resource. Are you thinking otherwise?

I guess you might be right. It is just me noticing my own behavior patterns and extending it to the greater populace which is not correct. I had a pleasure to live in village, small city and big city. I feel I use much more resources in bigger city. Distance to the mall is similar, but all the free-time activities in the city consume energy. While in the village I mostly just walked the forest and worked on the garde…

I think the logical mistake is that I am able & willing to live simpler life in the village. But that won't be true for most.

Re: Remote work is gutting downtowns

#80

Post by game_the0ry »

brookst wrote: post #25
game_the0ry wrote: post #16

I was in Manhattan when the pandemic hit, now I am in suburbs and I kind of like it out here. I miss the city, but it seems rent has gone up, not down, since 2020. So I will be staying out here for a while.

New York rental vacancy rate is still pretty typical, but trending up[0]. I expect it will continue as leases expire and people move to WFH elsewhere. If that happens, rents should come down, unless RealPage and similar drive price spirals of higher prices for fewer occupied units. [0] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/NYRVAC

Not too sure about that. I visited NYC several times after covid, and it is packed every time. The offices might not be full, but the streets and apartments def are.

> Dense downtowns in Austin and New York have seen steep increases in rental demand, a sign that people continue to be willing to pay a premium to live in a social district.

(^^from the article)

People, especially young people, still find NYC desirable enough to pay a lot for rent.

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