Live data from Hacker News

Remote work is gutting downtowns

businessinsider.com

11–20 of 262 posts

Re: Remote work is gutting downtowns

#12

So, what is the solution? Force everyone back into the pointless office at enormous cost to employees and employers just to keep the status quo for landlords. The bottom line is downtown is a place where people work with information. Since it is possible to work with information anywhere, this place isn't needed (and hasn't been for a long time). Downtown obsolete.

Walkable cities with mixed use development. Change the use of downtown.

Re: Remote work is gutting downtowns

#17

So, what is the solution? Force everyone back into the pointless office at enormous cost to employees and employers just to keep the status quo for landlords. The bottom line is downtown is a place where people work with information. Since it is possible to work with information anywhere, this place isn't needed (and hasn't been for a long time). Downtown obsolete.

There isn’t a mechanism to “force” anyone. With few exceptions, companies lease their office space. A few companies may try to force employees to sit in a leased office to feed the sunk cost fallacy, but that won’t last. Only the most incompetent management will renew leases to support employees who don’t want to be there in the first place.

The actual solution is large scale conversion of commercial real estate to residential. Some people like being downtown, with population density, ability to walk to lots of restaurants, etc. And converting ~60% of office space to residential will drive costs down, reducing financial motivations to move out of the city.

Property owners are fucked, and will see much lower returns than they expected. Some will go bankrupt. Buildings financed by banks may see foreclosure/auction, and some banks will lose money. That’s what interest is for.

But eventually these buildings will have new owners that bought them at appropriate prices, and new purposes as residences, and downtown will probably be an even better place to live, with a population that doesn’t go home to the suburbs every night.

tl;dr: probably a good thing for downtown; invest in office-to-apartment conversion companies.

Re: Remote work is gutting downtowns

#18
A bit off topic; I of course understand that I'm an odd situation and not representative of the broader trend at play here... But moving into remote work inspired my partner and I to move into Manhattan from the sprawling car driven nightmare that was Phoenix.

Tiny little studio, but we've never been particularly materialistic, a murphy bed massively opens up the space, and no office to go into means once the day is over we're a step or short train ride to really anything we could imagine doing without having to worry about gas/Uber pricing. Went for a lovely bike ride early in the morning, the city is practically dead at ~4:30AM. Whole Foods is just as expensive as it was in the suburbs of Phoenix, and our local Trader Joes is cheaper than the Fry's (Kroger) was out West. Then you have the street produce that absolutely slaughters any prices I've seen anywhere.

It's a little bit of work to find reasonably priced restaurants, admittedly, but there still are 6-10$ plates out here if you have the patience to look. I do miss In-N-Out.

Though really I think this is an indictment of the current state of Phoenix more than it is a reason to praise Manhattan... I'm sure any of the many lovely "flyover" states in-between would have much more livable pricing, and the drive cross-country showed that Arizona has some of the highest gas prices in the country.

Plan to move onto Wisconsin after a couple years, another plus of working remote (with companies that are very open/willing to support us in that choice).

Re: Remote work is gutting downtowns

#19

These seeds were sowed when cities cashed in on commercial real estate, pushing residential zoning further and further out of the city. Wake up call: nobody wants to spend longer than they have to on an unpaid, unpredictable commute into the city anymore. So while these downtown businesses are getting 1/3 of the foot traffic that they used to, all the supermarkets and shops a few miles down the road are raking it in.

I used to get the bus to work about 10 years ago because parking in the city became so expensive (I stopped long before Covid hit).

The thing I don't miss is that I got sick every single Winter. All it takes is one inconsiderate person to not cover their mouth and everyone is getting ill. And it happened all the time.

I had a commute time that ranged between one and two hours over that stretch as I'd lived in a couple of different places, but that wasn't even extreme. I knew people with 2+ hour commutes each way which they did for years on end.

I understand there are a lot of people who need a place to work away from their home, but who is going to voluntarily return to an office when they don't need to just to prop up your portfolio and obsolete businesses? Why should they?

It's like the argument that people should support local businesses instead of buying from Amazon. If Amazon is cheaper and more convenient, why would someone buy anything elsewhere? (It's not like those businesses are going to help with your rent or food costs).

Post reply on HN