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No one wants to have kids anymore

torturechambersmalltalk.substack.com

71–80 of 457 posts

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#71
post #46

> at this pace, the world's population is going to flatline at around 10 billion in 50 years Is that what you're panicking about? This means that for the next 50 years, we'll continue growing. Lack of offspring of current generations is clearly not the problem here. I still remember how in the 1980s, people were panicking that the world population kept growing, and sooner or later we were going to hit 10 billion. And…

10 billion is not enough, if you subscribe to the capitalist tenet of never ending growth. You need to expand those future markets!

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#72
post #38

I have decided not to have kids, at least partly because I believe Earth is already overpopulated for the living standard that humans deserve. Occasionally, someone asks the idiotic question, what if everybody made the same decision? Well, if they truly did, I would have made a different choice. All these projections about (white) replacement are fundamentally flawed because they assume that the reasons for the decis…

No post body was provided.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#73
This topic is absolutely fascinating. Here are all the ingredients for the bomb:

- Demography department: a) fertility, b) pension systems, the link between economic growth, population growth, and productivity growth (how can you have a safe pension system anyway without economic growth? will people have access to safe investments, if all safe investments simply track economic growth? can we have economic growth which is based solely on productivity growth if population is contracting?)

- Climate warming department: lifetime CO2 emissions per human being, and environmental impact.

- The perception of all the above. If most people believe than the above problems are more severe than they are, due to amplification (schooling, social media, institutions, etc), then they will want to have even less children.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#74

> But deep down I get it. Babies are a huge opportunity cost. Financially speaking, they are like winning the lottery but backwards. You can't even think of having one without cancelling your subscription to a good night's sleep. And if you take into account inflation, economic recession, and the rest of the news cycle's highlight reel, even a one-child family can seem to have one too many mouths to fish Lego pieces…

If considering children you focus on financials/comfort, you're going to get the same answer every time.

You don't do it to be better off or more comfortable. You do it to have a meaningful relationship.

It's really the same as having a life partner. Why do it when going out costs money and you'll have to adjust your schedule to their needs?

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#75

A word of advice to anyone on the fence about having kids: There’s nothing wrong with choosing not to have kids, but do yourself and consult with actual parents for what it’s really like to have kids. Articles like this one, which are written by someone who apparently has chosen not to have children, are almost universally terrible at representing the true experience of being a parent. Yes, being a parent involves a…

I have friends who haven’t had a good night’s sleep in years because of one of their kids being unable to settle into normal patterns.

I’m sure they’d still say it was worth it.

Mind you they are getting divorced now so who knows.

I think it’s fair to say YMMV on the sleep front.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#76
A (relatively weak) inherited instinctual desire to procreate aside, people have kids because it improves their personal outcome. Without modern machinery, the work input of kids will improve the family farm's productivity by more than they consume. With high infant mortality, more kids improves the chances that enough will survive to adulthood. Without modern social safety nets, elders would simply starve or die of exposure if grown offspring didn't take care of them. And so on.

Take those motivators away - and replace them with demotivators such as very high child rearing costs - and the birthrate drops. Low sperm counts? If they aren't zero, people will find a way to have kids if they really want them.

It's a great self-regulating mechanism. The planet's population is getting uncomfortably high, so the birthrate drops. Great.

While the city I live in hardly looks like, say, Shanghai, there has been nonstop residential construction here in all the decades I've lived here. Does this have to be normal? Do cities have to expand until they fill the planet completely? Obviously not. Of course it's going to suck when "peak infrastructure" exceeds the population but not as much as an infinitely growing population would.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#77
> I mean, fertility rates have been going down for 50 years; women are having half as many children, and some are so focused on their careers they might as well repurpose their wombs into walk-in closets.

Jesus. That language alone is part of why many women choose to remain child-free. Women aren't living incubators ffs.

> Maybe governments will wake up to the urgency of this issue and start implementing ways to encourage young people to take a look at Ikea's crib catalogue.

And that sentence hints at the problem. My parents could afford two kids on basically one income in the 90's Munich. Me today? Barely two cats on two incomes, and not that small incomes either.

When wages are so low that people struggle to live paycheck to paycheck - in America, almost a third of all [1] - they obviously won't have children if they can prevent having them.

We need significant wage increases, we need actual provisions for parents (i.e. paid parental leave for both parents for at least a year), we need lower rents and lower utility bills.

Oh, and we need lower working hours as well. 8 hours a day is already stretching it particularly with commuting involved, you need time and mental space not just for having sex, but also to actually care for a child.

[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/24/more-americans-live-paycheck...

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#78

Kid-having emerges. This (western biased) article is blaming the victim. An entire generation bled dry by student loans for useless degrees, unable to buy homes that their elders view as retirement funds. A thousand and one more entertaining things to do online which don't risk creating 18-year bundles of debt. And absolutely no idea how to break the cycle for your offspring. Pick one thing to fix and spend your life…

Being a victim of student loans would mean the borrower cannot properly consent to the debt. If that's the case we shouldnt offer student loans.

Otherwise theyre a victim of their own decision making. Of course they have a tough decision and probably received bad information like "education is priceless". So dont ever mislead kids with that crap. Ultimately We can distribute blame and repercussions across society l, which preserves the problem, or we could hold individuals responsible.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#79

A word of advice to anyone on the fence about having kids: There’s nothing wrong with choosing not to have kids, but do yourself and consult with actual parents for what it’s really like to have kids. Articles like this one, which are written by someone who apparently has chosen not to have children, are almost universally terrible at representing the true experience of being a parent. Yes, being a parent involves a…

I like to say that, in being a parent, I'm less happy on an "instantaneous" basis, but more happy overall; more fulfilled. I expect, to some extent, it has something in common with volunteering at a charity. It's not the actual act of doing the work that makes you happy, it's the fact that you're doing the work for a reason.

Would I love to sit around and play video games in the large amounts of free time I would have if I didn't have a family? Sure. But that instantaneous gratification does not compare to the more "overall" happiness of having a family. For me. Clearly, it's different for everyone.

Re: No one wants to have kids anymore

#80
I know this is going to be a hugely unpopular opinion, but life has no purpose if it was not for offspring. To me not wanting children gives me the same vibes as someone playing a sport or entering a competition and then not giving their absolute everything to win Gold.
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