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It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

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Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#211

Post by MontyCarloHall »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #66
ccity88 wrote: post #33

What's interesting to me is that if we're able to accept the idea that mass social media-induced illness can be developed just by virtue of video watching TikTok or YouTube, then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. This is probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, because nobody wants to confront the idea that we can _…

What boggles my mind is that people who adamantly claim that all gender behavior is socially constructed are the ones who are the first to denounce the idea that you can learn to want to be another gender.

You’ve nicely explained why trans-exclusionary radical feminists (TERFs) exist. Absolute belief that gender is purely a social construct (a core tenet of second-wave feminism) is strictly incompatible with gender dysphoria existing at all, since gender dysphoria necessarily means that our brains are inherently wired to be male or female.

The reality is more nuanced—while certain gender roles are purely social constructs, other aspects of gender are hardwired.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#212

Post by jasonlotito »

xd wrote: post #85
bognition wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter hypothesis. For the last several decades society put massive pressure on kids to conform to heteronormativity. With these pressures lessening more and more people are feeling empowered to explore their sexuality. Social media is absolutely involved, but we really don't know what the base rate would be in a society devoid of this kind of pressure.

As a parent I have no idea what you are trying to say with this idea of pushing "heteronormativity" - I don't and don't know any parents that push anything sexual let alone encouraging kids to explore sexuality .. they are kids and will be kids until they mature and begin to feel the urge to explore. This normalising of sexualising of children is abhorrent. Edit: the voting on this comment is crazy.. the number of HN…

Heteronormativity isn’t sexualizing anything. The only person talking about sexualizing children is you.

The voting on your comment is crazy because your ignorance on the topic is showing and it’s dangerous and insulting.

Educate yourself.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#213

Post by alisonatwork »

conchrat wrote: post #81
api wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This brings to mind one of my rules about conservative panics: If laws against witchcraft are removed and/or witchcraft is destigmatized and then all the sudden there appears to be an explosion of witches, the explanation is probably not that hordes of people are adopting witchcraft. I'll leave it to the reader to guess the simplest and most likely explanation.

I understand your point but I think witchcraft might not be the best example. If witchcraft started going viral, I would absolutely be tempted to give it a shot lol. Would not surprise me if I was not in the minority there

Sure. Adventurous or curious people might give something a try just for the hell of it. For some it will stick. For many it won't.

This is what I find so exhausting about those who try to drum up some kind of controversy around gender identity. Assuming it is all just a fad, who cares? Where's the issue when people decide to switch their gender on a whim? It's their lives. People do all kinds of things on a whim. Adults, teens and children too. Especially children, in fact. Sometimes people regret the things they did, sometimes they don't. Oh well, it's part of life.

I could understand being concerned about a social trend if it was causing violent behavior that negatively affected other people's lives, but this isn't that. Who is it hurting if someone decides to identify as another gender? Even if they pursue medical intervention, it's only going to affect them at worst. If anything the small government/pro-freedom position should be to defend the right of those people to live how they want.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#214

Post by maxbond »

rendall wrote: post #208
maxbond wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gender identity and sexual orientation are different concepts. Exploring gender identity is not the same as exploring sexuality. Children are constantly exploring identity, as I'm sure you have observed. For instance, I am a straight man, but when I was a child I sometimes stole my mother's lipstick and tried to put it on, or I would play with Barbie dolls. I saw that other people incorporated these activities in the…

> Gender identity and sexual orientation are different concepts. Exploring gender identity is not the same as exploring sexuality. While true, to be fair GP was responding to this: >>> " For the last several decades society put massive pressure on kids to conform to *heteronormativity*. With these pressures lessening more and more people are feeling empowered to explore their *sexuality*." [emphasis mine] To muddy th…

Kinks are impossible to pin down or fence in, people can get turned on by literally anything. https://xkcd.com/468/ This doesn't really muddy the waters; the concepts remain distinct, and people making it a kink to conflate them is kinda like how a joke isn't true but is only funny if you know the truth it refers to.

Heteronormativity conflates gender and sexuality; I'd guess (while acknowledging I don't know the content of anyone else's mind) that is what is responsible for their confusion, because they have been raised in a heteronormative society, the distinction doesn't exist in their mind.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#215

Post by naasking »

api wrote: post #65
bognition wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter hypothesis. For the last several decades society put massive pressure on kids to conform to heteronormativity. With these pressures lessening more and more people are feeling empowered to explore their sexuality. Social media is absolutely involved, but we really don't know what the base rate would be in a society devoid of this kind of pressure.

This brings to mind one of my rules about conservative panics: If laws against witchcraft are removed and/or witchcraft is destigmatized and then all the sudden there appears to be an explosion of witches, the explanation is probably not that hordes of people are adopting witchcraft. I'll leave it to the reader to guess the simplest and most likely explanation.

> the explanation is probably not that hordes of people are adopting witchcraft.

I don't know how you can a priori gauge this probability. If something illegal suddenly becomes legal but is still somewhat taboo, that obviously attracts experimentation, at least from rebellious youth.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#216

Post by [deleted] »

mschuster91 wrote: post #110
ccity88 wrote: post #33

What's interesting to me is that if we're able to accept the idea that mass social media-induced illness can be developed just by virtue of video watching TikTok or YouTube, then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. This is probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, because nobody wants to confront the idea that we can _…

> then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. This is probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, because nobody wants to confront the idea that we can _learn_ to want to be another gender. It's very, very simple. There always have been about 10% of people who are left-handed - but for a time in history, teachers and societ…

[deleted]

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#217

Post by blueflow »

maxbond wrote: post #119
xd wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a parent I have no idea what you are trying to say with this idea of pushing "heteronormativity" - I don't and don't know any parents that push anything sexual let alone encouraging kids to explore sexuality .. they are kids and will be kids until they mature and begin to feel the urge to explore. This normalising of sexualising of children is abhorrent. Edit: the voting on this comment is crazy.. the number of HN…

Gender identity and sexual orientation are different concepts. Exploring gender identity is not the same as exploring sexuality. Children are constantly exploring identity, as I'm sure you have observed. For instance, I am a straight man, but when I was a child I sometimes stole my mother's lipstick and tried to put it on, or I would play with Barbie dolls. I saw that other people incorporated these activities in the…

> My parents didn't like me playing with Barbie dolls; they explicitly told me that it wasn't something boys did.

Same with me, but let me ask you a question. Were you the sort of kid that actually listens to their parents? Because i didn't, and most of my peers didn't, either.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#218

Post by actionfromafar »

mc32 wrote: post #164
adolph wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Satanic panic is a moral panic consisting of over 12,000 unsubstantiated cases of Satanic ritual abuse (SRA, sometimes known as ritual abuse, ritualistic abuse, organized abuse, or sadistic ritual abuse) starting in the United States in the 1980s, spreading throughout many parts of the world by the late 1990s, and persisting today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_panic

Well, there were actual cases of it, but it was exaggerated in the media. Just as the media makes it out like the next stop by a cop could end up in an execution if you’re not the same ethnicity as the cop. It’s still rather rare, or at least not happening at the rate the media portrays it.

Yeah, but the ethnicity of cops is blue.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#219

Post by mrpopo »

mschuster91 wrote: post #110
ccity88 wrote: post #33

What's interesting to me is that if we're able to accept the idea that mass social media-induced illness can be developed just by virtue of video watching TikTok or YouTube, then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. This is probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, because nobody wants to confront the idea that we can _…

> then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. This is probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, because nobody wants to confront the idea that we can _learn_ to want to be another gender. It's very, very simple. There always have been about 10% of people who are left-handed - but for a time in history, teachers and societ…

There's no denying that gender dysphoria exists and has always existed. OP made the claim that it might be statistically over-represented.

Looking at the Hijra example, it looks like the Hijra demographics are around 0.5-1% of the population.

In the latest polls [0], the proportion of Gen Z that identify as transgender is over 2%.

Is there repression/stigma in South Asia keeping some people in the closet? Is the culture difference having an effect on gender dysphoria? Is there a gender dysphoria "contagious" effect? I don't know, but those are interesting questions.

[0] https://news.gallup.com/poll/389792/lgbt-identification-tick...

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#220

Post by ergonaught »

DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #115
ccity88 wrote: post #33

What's interesting to me is that if we're able to accept the idea that mass social media-induced illness can be developed just by virtue of video watching TikTok or YouTube, then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. This is probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, because nobody wants to confront the idea that we can _…

> because nobody wants to confront the idea that we can _learn_ to want to be another gender. Because we can't. And trust me, I have tried. Trans people are neither "over represented" nor a contagion. And it's not about "hate speech"; it's about stopping the spread of lies and extremist propaganda. The lie that "being trans is a choice" is just one little moving part in the massive machinery of oppressing, persecutin…

Are there actual people with Tourette's? Yes.

Are there actual people who "learned" to have something Tourette's-like? Yes.

If you don't distinguish between the two, then Tourette's is absolutely overrepresented.

Denying that this can be the case for gender dysmorphia is neither reasoned nor logical and can absolutely lead to harm.

There has to be a way to respect and help people without turning off our brains.

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