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It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

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201–210 of 704 posts

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#201
post #33

What's interesting to me is that if we're able to accept the idea that mass social media-induced illness can be developed just by virtue of video watching TikTok or YouTube, then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. This is probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, because nobody wants to confront the idea that we can _…

I have gender dysphoria myself, and you get an upvote from me because I think you are speaking the truth in a way that would lead to better outcomes for many of the affected people, if one properly thought through the implications.

I understand gender dysphoria (as opposed to body dysphoria/dysmorphia in a stricter sense) to be a mismatch between someone's own preferences, interests etc. inasfar as they touch on categories that society has declared to be gendered, and society's expectations of the same - at least those of your local bubble of society.

This means there are two non-mutually-exclusive ways to make the lives of gender dysphoric people better: (1) let them change themselves (many options from pronouns to hormones and surgery), or (2) change society's expectations. Out of sympathy for people suffering from gender dysphoria, I wish for a bit more of (2) in the world.

Even in a vastly improved society, there will be people who decide that medical changes such as hormones/surgery are right for them, and as far as possible we should support them. These people existed, in small numbers, before "trans" was cool, and they will still exist when the media interest has picked up some new favourite category. (By analogy, Tourette's syndrome is also a real thing that existed before the internet, and will still exist when this particular media spike has died down.)

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#202
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've not noticed the pink for girls/blue for boys distinction?

The colors used to be switched in the 1800s. Pink for boys and blue for girls.

That just says that gender norms are malleable, not that they don't exist. Both in the 1800s and today there were strong expectations in terms of "expected" roles for different genders.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#203
This is alarmist BS. Facebook group fodder. “Humans have working mirror neurons” could have been the headline.

All of you futurists who have slipped down the slope are worried about media spreading “sociogenic illness”. Of course media is powerful. It always has been. There has been about 75 years of fears and schemes about using TV to mass hypnotize its watchers. The same with radio before it.

What is happening is mass unstructured clustering by social algos, specifically TikTok. Historically content and ad algorithms have focused on contextual relevance with structured categories. Graphs have extended that to included social context. TikTok has novel input parameters about user behavior. There have been many reports that this unstructured clustering is surfacing niche medical diagnoses regularly.

A lot of neurodivergent traits have historically been under diagnosed for the same goddamn ignorance as OP’s piece: “it’s just attention seeking”. This type of dismissal by parents, teachers, and doctors alike have lead to millions of people leading shorter, harder lives. ADHD, Autism, Tourette’s, Bipolar, schizophrenia, etc are present in larger numbers than are diagnosed. Often time these lifelong genetic differences lead to 10x+ higher suicide rates, inability to sustain work, and myriad health issues. It’s really common that mental health issues that don’t result in property damage just get ignored, downplayed, or under treated even if acknowledged.

I was diagnosed with ADHD at age 29. Having that information combined with medication, therapy, and exercise has changed my life for the better dramatically. If TikTok was the surface where I discovered that, I would have likely been dismissed or even openly mocked by my doctors, and continued with a life of suffering or worse.

By the way, it seems people cited in the article are experiencing a form of Tourette’s syndrome that is a typical neurological trait associated with other pathology. Echolalia has far less cultural awareness, but accurate describes the behavior: “Echolalia is not only associated with Autism, but also with several other conditions, including congenital blindness, intellectual disability, developmental delay, language delay, Tourette's syndrome, schizophrenia and others.” it’s not just swear words like on TV. My child does this. What happened to start as a YouTube ad for “Raid Shadow Legends” turned into a joke punchline, turned into a phrase that they cannot stop themselves from saying compulsively at odd times, after multiple years. It’s sub-clinical by itself, but is consistent with the diagnosis they do have.

This article is red meat, BS fear bait at best, dangerous at worst. To the extent content like this actually promotes diagnosis denial, it’s complicit in very literal harm of patients and those around them.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#204
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Left-handed people.

I bring this one up every time someone brings up Chesterton's Fence arguments about stuff like this. Why was left handedness considered taboo and evil? Do we need to figure out a legitimate reason for this before we can remove the fence? Could there possibly be a legitimate reason for something that clearly absurd?

> Could there possibly be a legitimate reason for something that clearly absurd?

Yes: https://www.straightdope.com/21343459/in-the-third-world-do-...

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#205
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? Transmedicalists (those who belive sex reassignment is a required goal) are a minority in trans communities and "truscum" was created as a derogatory term for this attitude indicating its unpopularity. If you mean puberty blockers for trans youth rather than sex reassignment, they have much more support because of their non-permanent nature. We let many teenagers make decisions about things like tattoos and pi…

The use of puberty blockers to delay the normal onset of puberty is experimental and there is plenty of evidence that it has irreversible and serious, often tragic, effects: https://accpjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.100...

[deleted]

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#206
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Left-handed people.

I bring this one up every time someone brings up Chesterton's Fence arguments about stuff like this. Why was left handedness considered taboo and evil? Do we need to figure out a legitimate reason for this before we can remove the fence? Could there possibly be a legitimate reason for something that clearly absurd?

No comment about Chesterton's Fence but I have heard (but never confirmed!) one reason for left-handed stigma is to do with hygiene. The idea is that before modern hygienic standards (e.g. sinks with soap in every bathroom/kitchen), the left hand was reserved for "dirty work" (we are also considering a time before toilet paper...). So for example when you reach out to shake someone's hand, it would be rude to use the left.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#207
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Left-handed people.

I bring this one up every time someone brings up Chesterton's Fence arguments about stuff like this. Why was left handedness considered taboo and evil? Do we need to figure out a legitimate reason for this before we can remove the fence? Could there possibly be a legitimate reason for something that clearly absurd?

For me, the Chesterton’s Fence principle doesn’t insist that there’s a good reason for everything that needs to be discovered. It says, don’t remove the thing until you understand why it was put there. If you’re sure there’s no good reason, go ahead. But find out first.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#208
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a parent I have no idea what you are trying to say with this idea of pushing "heteronormativity" - I don't and don't know any parents that push anything sexual let alone encouraging kids to explore sexuality .. they are kids and will be kids until they mature and begin to feel the urge to explore. This normalising of sexualising of children is abhorrent. Edit: the voting on this comment is crazy.. the number of HN…

Gender identity and sexual orientation are different concepts. Exploring gender identity is not the same as exploring sexuality. Children are constantly exploring identity, as I'm sure you have observed. For instance, I am a straight man, but when I was a child I sometimes stole my mother's lipstick and tried to put it on, or I would play with Barbie dolls. I saw that other people incorporated these activities in the…

> Gender identity and sexual orientation are different concepts. Exploring gender identity is not the same as exploring sexuality.

While true, to be fair GP was responding to this:

>>> "For the last several decades society put massive pressure on kids to conform to *heteronormativity*. With these pressures lessening more and more people are feeling empowered to explore their *sexuality*." [emphasis mine]

To muddy the distinction further, there is a small minority of men whose sexual kink is to be perceived as women. These seem to be the people who are making the most trouble for trans women who just want to quietly go about living as women without fuss.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#209
post #33

What's interesting to me is that if we're able to accept the idea that mass social media-induced illness can be developed just by virtue of video watching TikTok or YouTube, then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. This is probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, because nobody wants to confront the idea that we can _…

What boggles my mind is that people who adamantly claim that all gender behavior is socially constructed are the ones who are the first to denounce the idea that you can learn to want to be another gender.

The trouble is, the Internet is bathroom stall graffiti.

If I say "For me it's a choice" then it undermines the people for whom it is not a choice. Because most of the audience in the bathroom stall aren't doing research to put together a comprehensive understanding of gender, they're just reading what in front of them for that day, and then leaving.

If I say gender can be learned, we can spend days bickering about what "learned" really means.

It's not fun. And I'm sorry that someone else said something you think is contradictory.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#210
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The colors used to be switched in the 1800s. Pink for boys and blue for girls.

And before that color was too expensive. But one wouldn’t say that gender roles did not exist. Color is nothing but an added expression like lipstick or horsehair wigs. For some today black is the macho color, for others it’s the artistic color.

My only point is that because of the color switch we can see that certain concepts of gender identity preference, "color", are social constructs that influence society.
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