It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness • Hacker News Board

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#101

Post by rendall » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 12:44 PM UTC

api wrote: post #65

bognition wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter hypothesis. For the last several decades society put massive pressure on kids to conform to heteronormativity. With these pressures lessening more and more people are feeling empowered to explore their sexuality. Social media is absolutely involved, but we really don't know what the base rate would be in a society devoid of this kind of pressure.

This brings to mind one of my rules about conservative panics: If laws against witchcraft are removed and/or witchcraft is destigmatized and then all the sudden there appears to be an explosion of witches, the explanation is probably not that hordes of people are adopting witchcraft. I'll leave it to the reader to guess the simplest and most likely explanation.

> one of my rules about conservative panic...

Rule implies that it applies to past conservative moral panics. Is there a past moral panic in which lots of formerly suppressed identities suddenly expressed themselves once the moral panic was over?

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#102

Post by gadders » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 12:46 PM UTC

astura wrote: post #96

gadders wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuck it, I'll take the karma hit. I am of course referring to young girls identifying as male/non-binary. I'm sure some of the cases are genuine, but not all. And I'm not saying these girls aren't troubled or have other things going on that they need help with.

You appear to confuse sociogenic illness with faking or being otherwise "non-genuine." This is not true. Sociogenic illness, including the one the article is about, are very real to those affected. The symptoms are real and genuine.

I think the symptoms they have are very real to them. I just don't think that the cure is more likely to be psychological then surgical.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#103

Post by pjc50 » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 12:46 PM UTC

xd wrote: post #85

bognition wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter hypothesis. For the last several decades society put massive pressure on kids to conform to heteronormativity. With these pressures lessening more and more people are feeling empowered to explore their sexuality. Social media is absolutely involved, but we really don't know what the base rate would be in a society devoid of this kind of pressure.

As a parent I have no idea what you are trying to say with this idea of pushing "heteronormativity" - I don't and don't know any parents that push anything sexual let alone encouraging kids to explore sexuality .. they are kids and will be kids until they mature and begin to feel the urge to explore. This normalising of sexualising of children is abhorrent. Edit: the voting on this comment is crazy.. the number of HN…

You've not noticed the pink for girls/blue for boys distinction?

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#104

Post by jackmott42 » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 12:46 PM UTC

throwaway27727 wrote: post #91

YellowStuDregg wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could people feel dismissive towards your opinion because it sounds like confabulation, rather than a carefully reasoned argument based on data that could spawn a good faith discussion? > What's interesting to me Shower thought, then > This is probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, because nobody wants to confront the idea that... Alright you win!

Or because it's a controversial topic and GP is worried about being taken as offensive but still would like to make their point.

Our neural networks have learned that people tend to say "I'm sure I'll get downvoted" right before or after saying some nasty racist or sexist shit. So, maybe avoid the phrase if you aren't doing that.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#105

Post by Macha » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 12:47 PM UTC

xd wrote: post #85

bognition wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter hypothesis. For the last several decades society put massive pressure on kids to conform to heteronormativity. With these pressures lessening more and more people are feeling empowered to explore their sexuality. Social media is absolutely involved, but we really don't know what the base rate would be in a society devoid of this kind of pressure.

As a parent I have no idea what you are trying to say with this idea of pushing "heteronormativity" - I don't and don't know any parents that push anything sexual let alone encouraging kids to explore sexuality .. they are kids and will be kids until they mature and begin to feel the urge to explore. This normalising of sexualising of children is abhorrent. Edit: the voting on this comment is crazy.. the number of HN…

The assumption that this is inherently sex related is where the issue starts. This is why the discussion shifted from talking about sexuality to talking about gender nearly 20 years ago. Ideas like boys cannot wear skirts or play with barbies are present from a young age, yet we don't accuse people opposed to boys with skirts/barbies of thinking about said boys future sexuality.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#106

Post by rowanG077 » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 12:47 PM UTC

api wrote: post #65

bognition wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter hypothesis. For the last several decades society put massive pressure on kids to conform to heteronormativity. With these pressures lessening more and more people are feeling empowered to explore their sexuality. Social media is absolutely involved, but we really don't know what the base rate would be in a society devoid of this kind of pressure.

This brings to mind one of my rules about conservative panics: If laws against witchcraft are removed and/or witchcraft is destigmatized and then all the sudden there appears to be an explosion of witches, the explanation is probably not that hordes of people are adopting witchcraft. I'll leave it to the reader to guess the simplest and most likely explanation.

Why not? If something illegal/destigmatized which has some advantages becomes legal I would absolutely expect there to be an explosion of people who now start adopting that thing.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#107

Post by pjc50 » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 12:47 PM UTC

rendall wrote: post #101

api wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This brings to mind one of my rules about conservative panics: If laws against witchcraft are removed and/or witchcraft is destigmatized and then all the sudden there appears to be an explosion of witches, the explanation is probably not that hordes of people are adopting witchcraft. I'll leave it to the reader to guess the simplest and most likely explanation.

> one of my rules about conservative panic... Rule implies that it applies to past conservative moral panics. Is there a past moral panic in which lots of formerly suppressed identities suddenly expressed themselves once the moral panic was over?

A lot of people came out after homosexuality was decriminalised.

Freedom of religion allowed a lot of people to express their religious identity which was formerly suppressed?

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#108

Post by dsiegel2275 » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 12:47 PM UTC

xd wrote: post #85

bognition wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter hypothesis. For the last several decades society put massive pressure on kids to conform to heteronormativity. With these pressures lessening more and more people are feeling empowered to explore their sexuality. Social media is absolutely involved, but we really don't know what the base rate would be in a society devoid of this kind of pressure.

As a parent I have no idea what you are trying to say with this idea of pushing "heteronormativity" - I don't and don't know any parents that push anything sexual let alone encouraging kids to explore sexuality .. they are kids and will be kids until they mature and begin to feel the urge to explore. This normalising of sexualising of children is abhorrent. Edit: the voting on this comment is crazy.. the number of HN…

I think "pushing heteronormativity" doesn't need to be a conscious, deliberate act and it doesn't need to be anything related to sex. It can be as simple as a parent buying their son a toy truck for their birthday while buying a barbie doll for their daughter: a reinforcement of socially acceptable gender roles

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#109

Post by somedude895 » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 12:48 PM UTC

brnt wrote: post #49

ccity88 wrote: post #33

What's interesting to me is that if we're able to accept the idea that mass social media-induced illness can be developed just by virtue of video watching TikTok or YouTube, then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. This is probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, because nobody wants to confront the idea that we can _…

Recently read the story of a detransitioner and the statistic that about a third falls of the radar (and due missing their hormones, almost certainly are unhappy about the treatment). Social media are implicated in the spread of these ideas (all ideas), and the detransitioner pleaded for better info from professionals and an end to doctor neutrality for underage trans people. Changed my mind a bit.

Could be part of the Tavistock Center[0] story?

The state of affairs around transsexuality is horrifying. Critical discussion is basically not allowed on moral grounds and most people who "study" the topic (eg gender studies), care for said patients (eg gender clinics), etc are the same people who already adhere to that no-criticism-allowed agenda.

[0] https://news.sky.com/story/amp/nhs-gender-clinic-the-tavisto...

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#110

Post by mschuster91 » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 12:48 PM UTC

ccity88 wrote: post #33

What's interesting to me is that if we're able to accept the idea that mass social media-induced illness can be developed just by virtue of video watching TikTok or YouTube, then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. This is probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, because nobody wants to confront the idea that we can _…

> then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. This is probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, because nobody wants to confront the idea that we can _learn_ to want to be another gender.

It's very, very simple. There always have been about 10% of people who are left-handed - but for a time in history, teachers and society (sometimes brutally) repressed that and forced left-handed children to use their right hand. Once that relaxed and children were left to freely be who they were, the left-handed ratio went back to its historic norm [1].

Obviously, it's been the same for gay, trans and other sexuality/gender-nonmainstream people. They have always been part of human history - from the old Greeks [2] to early Islamic and Hindu ages [3], but as long as there was an heir available for a long time many simply didn't bother to care or looked away in historic Catholic regions. The repression only went really bad with the Nazis, who destroyed the Institute for Sexology [4] and later on with anti-LGBT laws still remaining on the books for decades, then the anti-gay panic with AIDS, and only nowadays public opinion is beginning to relax.

The problem is that Conservatives not just don't get that simple historic fact, they actively deny it based on their morals, and as a result young LGBT people have shockingly high suicide rates (in thoughts, attempts and success [5]).

[1] https://www.truthorfiction.com/the-history-of-left-handednes...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Greec...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia)

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissen...

[5] https://www.npr.org/2022/05/05/1096920693/lgbtq-youth-though...