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Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

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Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#371
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe AI content is just a way to launder copyright.

Well, the uncomfortable truth is that our copyright regime doesn't really make sense. An AI is sort of the equivalent of a junior coder or an art student - it can look at existing work and mash it up and produce something in the same style that's novel (inspired by a prompt - which is like your teacher giving you an assignment). That's copyrightable when it's a human being doing it, and there is no inherent protectio…

Are answers to Stack Overflow not supposed to be copy pasted, just right away? It seems hard to believe, i thought that was the whole purpose of the site!

Well, copyright suffers from the same problem communism suffers. For communism to work, everyone should be on board. For copyright and patents to work as expected, every country on earth, every town and every city's laws should be almost the same regarding to that. As soon as even just one municipality anywhere on the planet, is free of patent laws, the exact same moment a factory will pop up and produce an expensive patented pharmaceutical product which it will sell for half the price, or 1/10 of the price.

Capitalism on the other hand, works even almost everyone else doesn't like it, and 2 people agree on a peaceful exchange of commodities, following a price the market sets, or it is discovered right away.

As a rule of thumb, anything that requires everyone to implement rules and follow them, for it to work, will fail sooner than later. When a product in some part of the world is selling 100x of the normal price because of some patent, counter incentives are detonated in some other part to produce it and sell it for 50x the price. This huge profit margin creates a chain reaction of other economic actors producing it as well, and selling it for 25x the price.

Additionaly the eating problem can be solved by capitalism, not communism. Exchange of art for electronic money, a marketplace of information is what we need. Bitcoin (not BTC) will play an instrumental role in that.

A.I generated images of picasso, are awesome. I created many of them, one series of them are "Darth Vader riding a red tricycle, in the style of picasso". They are so good you're gonna fall of the chair.

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#372
I can't be the only one that has a very real fear that AI generated "garbage" is going to basically destroy, or at the very least drastically change, the internet as we know it today, right?

There's soon to be so much noise that it will be impossible to separate the signal.

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#373

Upload your fake text and images anywhere. Upload it everywhere. Upload it as yourself. Upload it on behest of your willing friends. Corrupt your face in dozens of ways, then tag each as yourself. When everything is garbage, shadow profiles will mean nothing, social credit scores will mean nothing, analytics will mean nothing. Centralization can be turned on its head - the watering hole will be revealed to be the dan…

I was going to say this is a great idea but totally unfeasible due to the amount of cooperation required, enough people simply won't do it, but parts of it are kind of happening by default. e.g. with BS news stories and whatnot. Also I suppose a lot of it could be automated - fighting fire with fire in a way. I'm sure that would lead to a cat-and-mouse game of creating code for detecting and ignoring intentionally obfuscating content, then the other side coding their way around those detection systems, and then back and forth like that forever, similar to the pattern of: finding exploit -> patching exploit -> finding new exploit -> patching new exploit -> etc.

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#374

Upload your fake text and images anywhere. Upload it everywhere. Upload it as yourself. Upload it on behest of your willing friends. Corrupt your face in dozens of ways, then tag each as yourself. When everything is garbage, shadow profiles will mean nothing, social credit scores will mean nothing, analytics will mean nothing. Centralization can be turned on its head - the watering hole will be revealed to be the dan…

While I honestly do want to support this approach because unlike the alternative it might (just "might", though) work, I regretfully must also admit that the huge problem with this is collateral damage. There are millions of humans out there that are either highly susceptible to or are already caught into believing all sorts of nonsense, getting scammed in all forms, costing them money, time, well-being and even live…

It’s only a problem that large numbers are easily duped no matter how much education we give them when it’s also coupled with no-questions-asked universal suffrage.

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#375

Upload your fake text and images anywhere. Upload it everywhere. Upload it as yourself. Upload it on behest of your willing friends. Corrupt your face in dozens of ways, then tag each as yourself. When everything is garbage, shadow profiles will mean nothing, social credit scores will mean nothing, analytics will mean nothing. Centralization can be turned on its head - the watering hole will be revealed to be the dan…

While I honestly do want to support this approach because unlike the alternative it might (just "might", though) work, I regretfully must also admit that the huge problem with this is collateral damage. There are millions of humans out there that are either highly susceptible to or are already caught into believing all sorts of nonsense, getting scammed in all forms, costing them money, time, well-being and even live…

I agree with your point, but also think this trajectory is kind of inevitable in a way. As we can already see, a LOT of people are living deep in a world of BS news stories and made up facts, to the point where they're basically in a different reality.

Ideally, we'd find a way to go backwards from where we are now, maybe future generations will grow up with this flood of false info and learn to navigate it, but I think we reached a point where tech is developing so fast, and the world is changing so fast, that there were always be a large number of people who can't "keep up".

Given that, this may be one of the few scenarios where I'm in favor of a kind of "accelerationism" - increase the problem to a breaking point as soon as possible so that we can deal with the fallout and recover from it now, rather than dealing with this horrible state of things for decades and decades as it slowly gets worse and worse, until we eventually reach a breaking point anyway and likely have an even worse fallout to recover from.

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#376

Upload your fake text and images anywhere. Upload it everywhere. Upload it as yourself. Upload it on behest of your willing friends. Corrupt your face in dozens of ways, then tag each as yourself. When everything is garbage, shadow profiles will mean nothing, social credit scores will mean nothing, analytics will mean nothing. Centralization can be turned on its head - the watering hole will be revealed to be the dan…

We didn't need the help of AI to do this to poetry already. It turns out that access to a text editor was more than sufficient.

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#377
post #16
post #14

It is a real problem. The web will soon be full of AI generated bullshit. What might come back as useful tool? Authorship. People actually signing the content and putting their reputation on the line. It still exists obviously (journalism…) but it might need to be standardized and industrialized.

Another problem is AI training on AI generated content. This could lead to degradation of results. So perhaps to make everyone happy a new HTML tag indicating AI content would be useful?

That just makes things easier for the legitimate humans to differentiate themselves as being a cut above.

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#378
post #183
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ironic that for all our cheering of democratization of creation, we turn back to gatekeeping (video harder to produce than text) in a search for quality. Although maybe that's more a comment on the inevitable end state of democratization of creation + centralization of search/discovery + monetization of traffic.

Video is just a better format than text for many recipes, at least for novice cooks. The results often depend on technique as much as ingredients, and it's hard to convey technique through text.

Well-edited video. Cannot state how infuriating it is when the exact piece I'm stuck on is jumped over with a time cut.

Incidentally, this is why I click on the dirtiest garage clip for car how-to's: it's usually just the raw start-to-end process.

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#379
Not going to bother recapitulating the usual counterpoints,

except to mention a particularly egregious recurring oversight in analyses like this:

the (erroneous) presumption that what AI tools are going to do is what their designers (mostly) had in mind, which is, making existing processes/workflows/products but in some variety of "better" (or at least quicker, or, automatible, or, fungible) ways.

What these systems do more which is much more interesting, important, and influential on any real time scale,

is allow for new processes workflows and products.

I'm no more concerned that AI image generators are going to "swamp" the world with their output than I am that the mimeograph is going to swamp bookshelves with fanfic.

What they do in video, and AR, in responsive realtime, though? Now that might be interesting.

PSA it already is.

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#380

I see parallels here with industrialization and automation in manufacturing and food production. Today, it's self-evident to us as consumers when a product is cheap, low-quality, manufactured garbage from China. In many cases we can choose to spend more and buy a handmade or custom version of the product we want. In the future we might knowingly consume AI-generated cheap text for some purposes and opt for "the real…

That's a great parallel, especially since it supposes a possibility of a good(or at least acceptable) ending to all this, rather than just spiraling into chaos.

I only fear that there won't be enough profit motive for such gatekeeping/curation, which would only happen if very few people were willing to spend more money for human generated content. I can see this potentially not happening, either because the tech advances to quickly for people to even tell the difference, or people do realize but don't care because the AI learns to feed them exactly what they want(exactly what's happening with a lot of BS "news" already). Or maybe a decent group of people do see the value in real content, and pay for it, but the majority still remains oblivious or indifferent, and the effect it has on this majority is still enough to influence the direction of the world negatively enough that even those groups who avoid it will be forced to accept the consequences of living in a world created by AI and the majority of other people

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