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Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

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Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#121

Post by skeeter2020 »

ghaff wrote: post #106
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #15

In just the past couple of weeks, I've noticed lots of machine generated cooking recipes. They follow the typical SEO pandering blog format, where there's an unnecessary story about the author's trip somewhere or their child's school play being the inspiration for making this particular recipe, followed by the actual recipe details. The machine generated stories are even more pointless and meandering than what humans…

I guess I'm in the minority of actually appreciating a lot of the background. And it can't just be SEO given that cookbooks these days are hardly just lists of recipes for the most part and people do apparently buy them.

Absolutely, buying an actualy printed cook book is more than the recipes. I'm not sure the same thing is true for the 10M "Best Ever Chocolate Chip Cookie" recipes on the web.

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#122

Post by rxhernandez »

srge wrote: post #14

It is a real problem. The web will soon be full of AI generated bullshit. What might come back as useful tool? Authorship. People actually signing the content and putting their reputation on the line. It still exists obviously (journalism…) but it might need to be standardized and industrialized.

People "sign" their content with their faces on TikTok; it doesn't stop the deluge of complete nonsense that's widely accepted on that platform (much to the frustration of many academics trying to combat it).

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#123

Post by tylerrobinson »

I see parallels here with industrialization and automation in manufacturing and food production. Today, it's self-evident to us as consumers when a product is cheap, low-quality, manufactured garbage from China. In many cases we can choose to spend more and buy a handmade or custom version of the product we want.

In the future we might knowingly consume AI-generated cheap text for some purposes and opt for "the real thing" in other cases. Just like I buy manufactured wood furniture from Target for the spare bedroom, but not for things I want to keep forever.

The interesting thing is that a boom in AI-generated content makes gatekeepers like traditional publishers more relevant after two decades of decline. The narrative of the internet has always been the democratization of content, information, and news. Now, we might find that a stamp of approval has specific value. A publisher can promise that some certain content for medicine or engineering was not generated by AI. Whether fraud also exists is a different question.

Another way I'm thinking about it is with GMO food. GMO food supporters point out that GMOs help us feed more people, but it still makes others uneasy. Maybe there's a similar story with AI content. It makes some content cheaper, but what are the side effects?

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#124

Post by ghaff »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #121
ghaff wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I'm in the minority of actually appreciating a lot of the background. And it can't just be SEO given that cookbooks these days are hardly just lists of recipes for the most part and people do apparently buy them.

Absolutely, buying an actualy printed cook book is more than the recipes. I'm not sure the same thing is true for the 10M "Best Ever Chocolate Chip Cookie" recipes on the web.

I guess if I'm just looking for a recipe the text is easy enough to skip. Often there's even a jump to recipe button. But photos etc. are often appreciated as well as some sense of why this recipe might be different.

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#125

Post by kneebonian »

ren_engineer wrote: post #117
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #15

In just the past couple of weeks, I've noticed lots of machine generated cooking recipes. They follow the typical SEO pandering blog format, where there's an unnecessary story about the author's trip somewhere or their child's school play being the inspiration for making this particular recipe, followed by the actual recipe details. The machine generated stories are even more pointless and meandering than what humans…

there's a paper that basically shows these LLMs are pretty much tapped out in terms of quality data to train on, not sure if there are any legit architecture improvements in the works to improve results quality but it seems brute force training with more data may be about over - https://arxiv.org/pdf/2211.04325.pdf As for SEO, Google is going to have to stop being lazy and relying so much on backlinks and domain auth…

An interesting idea but really then aren't you just recreating reddit to an extent. The things people like or that are popular are upvoted because the voter agrees whereas what is unpopular gets down voted regardless of veracity because people like the way it sounds.

Beyond that a once popular website or producer says or does something that offends the sensibilities of the internet crowd and then everyone goes and down votes their results because it violates the current ziegiest

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#126

Post by jordanrobinson »

oneseven wrote: post #101
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have cookbooks, both physical and in digital formats, but it's usually faster to do a web search, especially when I mostly need cooking time and temperature. Perhaps this will motivate me to finally get around the setting up a local search function for my electronic cookbook collection as the web is going to be less and less trustworthy.

Have a look at https://www.eatyourbooks.com/ not sure if they do ebooks.

It's a shame, this seems like a really great idea, but I just tried to use it and for a recipe from a book I own it comes up with:

> We’ve helped you locate this recipe but for the full instructions you need to go to its original source.

Which I guess makes sense, how can they verify I own the cookbook, but still very disappointing.

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#127

Post by ren_engineer »

kneebonian wrote: post #125
ren_engineer wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's a paper that basically shows these LLMs are pretty much tapped out in terms of quality data to train on, not sure if there are any legit architecture improvements in the works to improve results quality but it seems brute force training with more data may be about over - https://arxiv.org/pdf/2211.04325.pdf As for SEO, Google is going to have to stop being lazy and relying so much on backlinks and domain auth…

An interesting idea but really then aren't you just recreating reddit to an extent. The things people like or that are popular are upvoted because the voter agrees whereas what is unpopular gets down voted regardless of veracity because people like the way it sounds. Beyond that a once popular website or producer says or does something that offends the sensibilities of the internet crowd and then everyone goes and do…

>aren't you just recreating reddit to an extent

there are tons of ways to prevent that by weighting votes and only taking a random sample. SEO is basically a war where SEOs find a way to exploit Google's algorithm and Google tries to respond.

Backlinks were Google's original solution to keyword spam that made other search engines suck, they didn't expect people would create entire sites or pay other websites to send links to them so they could rank higher. Backlinks were themselves considered to be "votes" for quality similar to citations in academia. The problem is the barrier to entry to make a site and link to it is high, so SEOs themselves are often the only ones to do it. Adding some sort of voting mechanism would allow actual readers to give an opinion on quality, although you'd probably see SEOs pay people to vote on their link via a VPN switching IPs, so only people with established Google accounts could be allowed to vote. Obviously its a huge challenge, which is why Google is worth hundreds of billions for even partially solving it

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#128

Post by capableweb »

ethbr0 wrote: post #91
hoosieree wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's not to like? Custard? Good! Jam? Good! Meat? Good!

I would be very interested in your meat jam custard recipe. Asking for a friendly AI.

Here is my own favorite way of doing jam custard:

> I am not able to provide a recipe for meat jam custard as I do not have the ability to access information on specific recipes. However, I can provide some general guidelines on how you might go about making a meat jam custard.

> First, you will need to select a type of meat to use for the jam. This could be any type of meat that you enjoy and that is suitable for cooking and preserving. Some common options for meat jam include pork, beef, chicken, or lamb.

> Once you have selected your meat, you will need to cook it until it is tender and well-done. This can be done by boiling, roasting, or slow-cooking the meat, depending on your preference and the type of meat you are using.

> Once the meat is cooked, you will need to shred or finely chop it and mix it with a jamming or preserving agent, such as sugar, honey, or fruit juice. This will help to preserve the meat and give it a jam-like consistency.

> Next, you will need to prepare a custard base for the meat jam. This can be done by mixing together eggs, milk, and any desired flavorings, such as vanilla or spices.

> Finally, you will need to combine the meat jam and custard mixture and pour it into a baking dish. Bake the dish in the oven until the custard is set and the top is golden brown.

> Keep in mind that this is just a general idea of how you might go about making a meat jam custard, and the specific ingredients and cooking methods may vary depending on the recipe you are using. It is always best to follow a recipe carefully and make any necessary adjustments based on your personal preferences and the ingredients you have on hand.

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#129

Post by mihaaly »

We don't need AI for garbage, it make little difference in the garbage already put there since the invention of social media. Actually human made garbage existed since the beginning of time just did not escape the smaller groups that easily where the writer intends to send us back. It is only easier to share and distribute, dress up and decorate the garbage these modern times than earlier. I recall the '90 when a crapload of new books got mass produced with garbage in it making the filtering an essential thing. Not like garbage did not exist before in antient times and family dinners alike. We need to take our ability of filtering to the next level now. And the AI does not make it much worse, so far it is more obvious by AI "generated" (more like collected) garbage.

Re: Drowning in AI Generated Garbage: the silent war we are fighting

#130

Post by toddmorey »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #15

In just the past couple of weeks, I've noticed lots of machine generated cooking recipes. They follow the typical SEO pandering blog format, where there's an unnecessary story about the author's trip somewhere or their child's school play being the inspiration for making this particular recipe, followed by the actual recipe details. The machine generated stories are even more pointless and meandering than what humans…

So the interesting thing about these tools is that they don’t link to the sources or cite the sources but instead train on them to generate a new source.

I wonder if over time SEO spam becomes an invisible problem to us and instead the AIs have sort it out for us.

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