Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Iran abolishes morality police

hindustantimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 266 posts

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#251

Post by cies »

ethanbond wrote: post #193
cies wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right in the US you can say that. But showing how the govt is criminally scheming against the people gets you in jail just as much. Ask Assange. > This “all imperfect systems are equally imperfect” is utterly detached from reality. I wanted to say they are similar in resisting reform. Sorry if that was not clear.

They're not though. Assange would be tried in a court with codified laws that are written by elected representatives of the people. He'd have a right to legal representation of his choice. He'd be able to call witnesses to defend him. A jury could decide that even if he's entirely guilty of the crime, that actually the law on the books is incorrect and therefore nullify it. If he gets an unfair trial, he can appeal a…

Have you been to Iran? I have, many times. I will tell you a little secret: in that part of the world, Iran is considered Germany (stable, rules-based, strong-govt).

Compared to Canada, the US is like India: huge difference between poor and rich, gated communities everywhere...

Just my take.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#252

Post by mamsoudi »

Well it’s not gone (really), it’ll probably change name and still operate to terrorise people and youngsters who want to live a free life. At most another propaganda scheme by the -frightened- Islamic Republic to calm the people who take their lives in their hands everyday and go to streets to protest the very being of the regime.

It’s vital for people around the world to stop spreading these propaganda and understand that this is not what the people want. People are taking it to the street to take down a corrupt regime that has threatened its people and taken away their freedom and will away from them.

Abolishing the Morality Police is not going to change their ideology.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#254

Post by itshossein »

ashwagary wrote: post #238
Nursie wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the explicit morality police were established then and may be dissolved now, but it's not going to change the behaviour of (for example) groups like the Basij, a paramilitary youth group who roam the streets enforcing 'morality' through street violence. I don't believe this represents any real change. (edit -- One group or another has been violently enforcing dress codes in Iran since the revolution itself, the…

>may be dissolved now I doubt they will ever be dissolved by public or foreign pressure, especially since they consider the protests illegitimate.

No doubt. In fact the current speaker of the parliament clearly stated this some days ago:

[in Persian:] https://www.entekhab.ir/fa/news/701903/%D9%82%D8%A7%D9%84%DB...

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#255

Post by itshossein »

pm90 wrote: post #136
itshossein wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's way far more complicated than simply a coup. Though it defenitly was a terrible thing to happen. Iran has never had an effective justice system (religous reasons / kings' economic monopolies). Without one, nothing like a democracy is possible. It was democratic just on the paper.

Democratic forms of Government don’t just materialize out of thin air. They start off pretty messy with a mix of democratic and un democratic elements. Institutional capacity is then built and strengthened over time. Iran was certainly on a more democratic path then.

I doubt that. I mean, I see a very little difference. We even had a harsh anti-hijab dress code then. And we still have elections. Perhaps the oil industry made the real difference.

As Daron Acemolgu stated beautifully, in a country with an absolute economic power (a family, a corporation, a foreign country, etc) which controls the Army at the same time, there is no hope for a real change. Even a gradual one. It all starts from the moment when a king or a government starts to 'need' their people and give them some real power in return.

https://scholar.harvard.edu/jrobinson/publications/economic-...

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#256

Post by ethanbond »

cies wrote: post #251
ethanbond wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not though. Assange would be tried in a court with codified laws that are written by elected representatives of the people. He'd have a right to legal representation of his choice. He'd be able to call witnesses to defend him. A jury could decide that even if he's entirely guilty of the crime, that actually the law on the books is incorrect and therefore nullify it. If he gets an unfair trial, he can appeal a…

Have you been to Iran? I have, many times. I will tell you a little secret: in that part of the world, Iran is considered Germany (stable, rules-based, strong-govt). Compared to Canada, the US is like India: huge difference between poor and rich, gated communities everywhere... Just my take.

Yes compared to actual failed states Iran is pretty stable (though may be changing). Compared to some of the wealthiest places on earth (all wealth built under the US security umbrella), the U.S. has some problems.

This isn’t news!

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#257

Post by peoplefromibiza »

inglor_cz wrote: post #39
capableweb wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to say something complex like a dictatorship gets overturned by just one variable. I much more favor the view laid out in "Revolutions: A Very Short Introduction" by Jack A. Goldstone. > There are five elements that create an unstable social equilibrium: economic or fiscal strain, alienation and opposition among the elites, widespread popular anger at injustice, a persuasive shared narrative of resistance, and f…

Two of the conditions (economic or fiscal strain + popular anger at injustice) seem to be met in Iran, plus the third one (narrative of resistance) is somewhat met, as Shi'a cultures tend to regard martyrdom highly and current governmental repression created a lot of martyrs. I don't believe that all five conditions have to be met in order to see a revolution. In plenty of places like Portugal in 1974 or South Korea…

Portugal was in Europe, South Korea had the support of USA.

Iran economic conditions are created mostly by the west imposing sanctions.

Popular anger is a minority yet, we see it a lot because it benefits the western propaganda, I'm quite sure it's not as widespread in Iran, not because of censorship alone, but because the majority still believe that the real enemy is the western corruption.

We've seen it in Afghanistan, a war created by the US without a real motivation that Obama transformed into a liberation of the afghan people which in the end turned into bringing some woman from Kabul with their kids to the west to live like western women, leaving behind their traditions and husbands while the majority of the people lived in small rural villages and hoped for the Talibans to return and bring back their way of life. And it finally happened, for two reasons

- it costed too much, despite the people always saying that freedom has no price, it obviously has one and it's not very high

- American soldiers were dying for the cause and there was nothing of economic value on the table to die for

We should stop meddling with other people's revolutions, if Iran will revolt it should be because Iranian people have done it.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#258

Post by scott_w »

zucker42 wrote: post #94
scott_w wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t compare the outcome of the first past the post system of the U.K. and USA and the dictatorships of China and Russia that ensure the dictator will never peacefully transfer power to a rival.

I don't want to defend the Chinese government, but the transitions of power in China have been peaceful since Deng Xiaoping.

> the dictator will never peacefully transfer power to a rival.

Was Xi Jingping an open rival to Hu Jintao? Given Xi Jingping has purged his rivals from the levers of power, do you see any possibility that he'll peacefully stand down in 5 years to someone who is ideologically opposed to his government?

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#259

Post by peoplefromibiza »

sharikous wrote: post #212
JZM8yKnRvGv wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK from 2019 to 2022 there were five elections, all of them where won by the center right (the center or the right) The right is (was) led by Netanyahu, the center by Ganz, a retired military general, former ministry of defense. Not exactly two champions of progressivism. I don't recall a victory of the left or the Arab parties in Israel, maybe it's because, like in Iran, the situation in the area forces them to a…

You are oversimplifying Israeli politics. Concepts like "left" and "right" do not apply fully there as there are at least three fundamental splits that are somewhat independent: appeasement with the Palestinians vs hawkish politics, economic right/left, religion vs secularism. And what wins is a coalition, not a single party, so the bag is even more mixed, not to mention that parties have internal currents too From 2…

> And what wins is a coalition, not a single party, so the bag is even more mixed, not to mention that parties have internal currents too

Yes and that's what my original answer meant.

We can say the same thing about Iran, but we don't because it's easier to make the enemy look 2D, 100% evil, no complexity, only sins, mistakes and violence. We also say stpid shit like: democracy will fix everything, knowing very well it won't it would simply allow us to negotiate a way into their "market".

Rethotical propagandistic tactic don't work anymore in 2022 and I believe we should be honest to ourselves if we wanna talk about complex socio political topics.

Us 100% good vs Them 100% bad is not the way, IMO.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#260

Post by lern_too_spel »

midoridensha wrote: post #246
lern_too_spel wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a ridiculous exaggeration. People vote in the primaries as well. Except for Thiel, rich people were uniformly against Trump being nominated.

It isn't universally that way: Trump showed how to subvert the system. But the 2016 election showed how the powerful elites in the Democratic party subverted the people's will and installed an extremely unpopular candidate they wanted. Then of course the people spoke in the general election that they didn't want her, and disaster ensued. In most elections, the candidates were ones the rich elites wanted there. But th…

> But the 2016 election showed how the powerful elites in the Democratic party subverted the people's will and installed an extremely unpopular candidate they wanted.

Utter nonsense. Clinton beat the next candidate by a double digit vote percentage in the primaries. That's a landslide. Sanders won a bunch of party caucuses, and it's caucuses that ignore the will of the people and only consider the preferences of party insiders. The only reason you believe the will of the people was subverted was that you were hoodwinked by a coordinated social media campaign whose purpose was to destabilize the democracy.

Post reply on HN