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Iran abolishes morality police

hindustantimes.com

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Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#91

Post by hairofadog »

It’s worth noting that Iran was a democracy until the 1953, when the US and UK supported a coup to install a corrupt dictator so they could avoid paying oil fees. The 1979 Iranian revolution was the pendulum swinging back hard the other way.

I’m in no way supporting Iran’s religious extremism or current government, but they are monsters that we created.

The coup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat?...

Edit: it has been pointed out that the pendulum metaphor isn’t quite right, and that makes sense to me, but I’ll leave it since people have responded to it.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#92

Post by petesergeant »

tartoran wrote: post #77
einpoklum wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you've been following Iranian elections you might reach the opposite conclusion... Now, I'm no fan of the Iranian regime, but I doubt you can make trustworthy conclusions about what the public wants from sampling posts on social media. (I wouldn't say that even elections are the end-all of what "the public wants".)

No, I think you could tell quite well what people want when they put their lives on the line to make a change. Im sure there is a part of the population that is vested with the current system but that is generally a smaller part that is working in that system and which is somewhat propped up by manipulted rural masses who may also have had enough of this too.

> what people want when they put their lives on the line to make a change

[removed: a reference to The Troubles] A minority of people can feel very, very strongly about something without the majority of people feeling that way.

> [the] part of the population [that supports the Iranian regime] is generally a smaller part

Happy to believe that, but where’s the data? That some people are clearly very angry at the monstrous and evil regime there doesn’t imply that it’s the majority or even close to.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#93

Post by dontbenebby »

keriati1 wrote: post #88

-

Do you work for chatGPT or something? I've seen a lot of really spammy people use phrasing similar to the beginning of your post lately. I'm not flagging you or downvoting you, but you made me raise my eyebrows, I can't tell if posts like these are authentic interaction.

(I don't mind if someone's a sincere fan of a service, there's places I've plugged, for lack of better phrasing, if I've found value from them, but I'm trying to cut back on uncompensated endorsements since folks abused the spirit of trying to respect good work.)

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#94

Post by zucker42 »

scott_w wrote: post #81
booleandilemma wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha, your comment got me thinking: is there a chance Democrats and Republicans will ever be voted out?

You can’t compare the outcome of the first past the post system of the U.K. and USA and the dictatorships of China and Russia that ensure the dictator will never peacefully transfer power to a rival.

I don't want to defend the Chinese government, but the transitions of power in China have been peaceful since Deng Xiaoping.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#95

Post by pmontra »

4str0n0mer wrote: post #47
nextaccountic wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cuba actually has a democratic process, believe it or not.

Many dictatorships actually do. The question is more like "is it a process that only exists on paper?". If an election ends with a 98% approval of the supreme leader (or whatever the designation), then it's probably rigged and just for show...

To give an example Italy had an election with 98.5% for the fascist party in 1929. That was to confirm or reject the list of house members appointed by the party. I mean, there were no candidates to chose from, the ones in the list would be... elected?

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#96

Post by panick21_ »

inglor_cz wrote: post #20
sharikous wrote: post #8

That's significant. The ayatollahs came to power thanks to big popular support (audio cassettes of khomeini). Now a popular uprising is specifically against religious restrictions. In the meantime empirically the army has all the power of the sword. That's a step towards sidelining the ayatollahs. I guess we will see if it will evolve toward a military dictatorship (as I predict), a democracy, or the existing religio…

"In the meantime empirically the army has all the power of the sword." Isn't it the Revolutionary Guard who wields the real power of the sword? From what I have heard, the regular army is kept somewhat underinvested precisely because the young recruits cannot be trusted, while the RG consists of utterly dedicated individuals supporting the regime at any cost.

There is true to that split, but the real army can not be fully de-powered. They still have a lot of the heavy weapons and large numbers.

The Revolutionary Guard outside the professional core isn't that dangerous.

I believe this split between Revolutionary Guard and the Army is what will one-day allow Iran to turn democratic.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#97

Post by jahnu »

hairofadog wrote: post #91

It’s worth noting that Iran was a democracy until the 1953, when the US and UK supported a coup to install a corrupt dictator so they could avoid paying oil fees. The 1979 Iranian revolution was the pendulum swinging back hard the other way. I’m in no way supporting Iran’s religious extremism or current government, but they are monsters that we created. The coup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%…

Classic case of blowback

Which reminds me of this great ADF song

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nlFlhA4e56I&feature=emb_title

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#98

Post by JZM8yKnRvGv »

josh_fyi wrote: post #46
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like the center-right in Israel that will always win against the Arab left?

An Arab party and two leftist parties were in the last coalition, though the Arab party was Islamist and the leftists parties were not Arab parties.

AFAIK from 2019 to 2022 there were five elections, all of them where won by the center right (the center or the right)

The right is (was) led by Netanyahu, the center by Ganz, a retired military general, former ministry of defense. Not exactly two champions of progressivism.

I don't recall a victory of the left or the Arab parties in Israel, maybe it's because, like in Iran, the situation in the area forces them to act in a certain way, to not disappear.

I don't condone what's happening in Iran, but I think I understand why there isn't a democracy of the same kind we like to pride ourselves in the west.

I think OP meant to say that Iran is to be considered more democratic than its neighbouring countries: Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Emirates (and so on). Some of them (we all know who they are) are close friends of the west or some western countries, one in particular (we all know which one is it), and I honestly believe they are more dangerous than Iran.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#99

Post by adalacelove »

Vespasian wrote: post #51
nextaccountic wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cuba actually has a democratic process, believe it or not.

So do China, North Korea or Russia. Sometimes there are even multiple parties. Is there a chance that the people in power (at any level of government) get voted out?

Elections is the most visible part of a democracy but I think separation of powers is even more important. And of course is the first thing a dictator will eliminate, even more than elections. Actually is the first thing wannabe dictators inside democracies attack
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