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Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

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Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#311
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> have no power to change it Who are these people? The one and a half billion Chinese are powerless to rise up? No government can subjugate a billion people. Their state is powerful but it only works because the citizenry are decently happy with their lives getting better over the last decades

> Their state is powerful but it only works because the citizenry are decently happy with their lives getting better over the last decades China has had a billion for more than 40 years now; the only signficant challenge to the CCP's dictatorship was at Tiananmen in 1989. Communism has developed fairly sophisticated tools to help retain control; all the way up from textbooks in schools to violence as needed.

I know. But if you look at the standard of living for the average Chinese over the last 40 years it is no surprise that there hasn’t been any major upheaval. Especially coming off of Mao’s deranged dark ages-level rule.

It’s really been more of a technocracy for most of that time. Deng for example was no Mao or Xi

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#312
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> good to see the totalitarian tyrant Xi wrecking China just as his inspiration Mao did back in the day This affects real people who just found themselves on this situation and have no power to change it. Gleefully calling the situation “good” is callous and insensitive.

I didn't read the parent as approving of totalitarianism or the damage that arises from it. Unfortunately the memories of Western elites seem to be very short when it comes to Chinese atrocities. The silver lining to the very dark cloud of current events is that it's increasingly hard for them to ignore how evil the Chinese system and its rulers are. I was alive before we handed all our manufacturing capacity over to…

> I was alive before we handed all our manufacturing capacity over to China and we got along just fine. I was alive while it was happening, too, and I remember it being sold to the public as the first step toward an inevitable transition to liberal democracy in China. All those lies are now completely unmasked.

I don’t think it was lies.

It was before my time, but the kitchen debate between Nixon and Kruschev was very ideological and I think the belief that market reforms would liberalize China, was genuine.

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/1959-07-24.pdf

Some of the arguments used by Nixon haven’t stood the test of time:

Khrushchev: We have steel workers and peasants who can afford to spend $14,000 for a house. Your American houses are built to last only 20 years so builders could sell new houses at the end. We build firmly. We build for our children and grandchildren.

Nixon: American houses last for more than 20 years, but, even so, after twenty years, many Americans want a new house or a new kitchen. Their kitchen is obsolete by that time....The American system is designed to take advantage of new inventions and new techniques.

Planned obsolescence of course, introducing a raft of global problems.

If communism failed (and I believe it unambiguously has), Americans were blind to the limits of a market system:

Nixon: … Diversity, the right to choose, the fact that we have 1,000 builders building 1,000 different houses is the most important thing. We don’t have one decision made at the top by one government official. This is the difference.

It turns out that a central party or dictators can allow a market system, while maintaining an iron grip on powers.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could argue European's have very low IQs relative to access to resources/wealth - it would be equally stupid and racist but I would have better evidence than you to back it up just by looking at how much they get outcompeted by their Indian origin fellow citizens.

European outcompeted by their Indian origin fellow citizens? If you people are so great how come India is a shithole?

My point is that both ideas are absurd and racist - you claiming that a countries' situation is because of low IQ. You do realize that if you IQ tested people in Europe 100 years ago the results would be godawful right? Believing in genetic superiority/inferiority is extremely low IQ - how do you isolate the million other factors?

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#314

Wait, didn’t they say they’ll need 8 years to move out 10%?

I don't think so. Last year Indias share was 2-3% and in 2022 it is expected to be 5%. With new plants coming up and existing plants ramping up, i thing 10% can be reached within next year

There's some research by Bloomberg that suggests otherwise - https://9to5mac.com/2022/09/30/apples-dependence-on-china/

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you're trolling but this wasn't even hard to find: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Practices_of_Apple_Inc.#Manufa... I wish sometimes folks could see past their paychecks, privilege, and holier-than-thou attitude. That's too much to ask. I mean, better chances at holding Apple accountable than dealing with its notorious fanbois.

I don't have a paycheck, I'm living off capital gains, thank you. Your argument is a great example of throwing a pile of words (via your link) at a question and missing entirely, because the question is, "Does foreign investment in manufacturing make workers of a country better off?" and the answer is, "Yes, vastly." But thank you for pointing out that Communist governance is awful, we're in agreement there.

> I don't have a paycheck, I'm living off capital gains, thank you.

Replying to worker abuse concerns with "well, I'm rich and don't have to work!" is really, really weird.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#316
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems to me like their import tax is working. I wish more countries had import taxes of this sort, they tend to push the nation to be a bit more diversified in their economy since they provide air cover for small local concerns.

Increases the cost for locals though doesn’t it?

For things they don’t produce sure. But my hope is that they would wind up having better economies since their Local economy might be a bit shielded from international trade

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#317
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increases the cost for locals though doesn’t it?

For things they don’t produce sure. But my hope is that they would wind up having better economies since their Local economy might be a bit shielded from international trade

I'm not sure being shielded from international trade and economies of scale go hand in hand.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#318
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah considering that China for about 2000 years was the leading civilisation I'm not sure why people use that term.

> Yeah considering that China for about 2000 More like 500 years (1000 years at best if you stretch it very hard)

China harkening back 2000 years is like the US harkening back to Rome.

Fact is modern communist China is actively erasing its history and is quite new on the world stage.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#319
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What aspect of China makes the West look like a 'backwater'? I literally cannot think of a single thing. That doesn't mean China has no positive aspects. The West is also not monolithic.

> What aspect of China makes the West look like a 'backwater'? Growth, for one.

It’s easy to grow with such a low gdp/capita.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#320
post #227
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonderful news indeed, but it’s not out of any ethical concerns, but because XI Jinping’s draconian zero-Covid policy and incessant lockdowns have made the Chinese supply-chain unreliable, something Apple like all businesses hate (remember, Tim Cook became head of Apple because of his supply-chain management chops). Still, good to see the totalitarian tyrant Xi wrecking China just as his inspiration Mao did back in t…

> the world will not naively give China the same opportunities again. I fear that you're wrong. Hopefully I'm the one who's wrong, but only time will tell.

I don't think so. Vietnam, India or Indonesia are much cheaper places to manufacture than China, and are not threats to us like China has become.
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