Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#241

Post by dirtyid » Sun, Dec 04, 2022, 6:11 PM UTC

fyresala wrote: post #26

iPhone made in China is no better than the cotton from Xinjiang. Earlier the reports are workers in the China iPhone factory had a protest and brutal conflict with the local police. Reasons varied from unbearable working condition, the zero-covid policy, and being deceived about the compensation. After the local police oppressed the campaign, the government assigned headcounts to local villages, demanding them to fil…

>iPhone made in China is no better than the cotton from Xinjiang.

High quality hardware and cotton that lifts peasants out of poverty through heavy state coordination with proceeds reinvested to move up value chain. No better = equally good.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#242

Post by 8ytecoder » Sun, Dec 04, 2022, 6:12 PM UTC

nixcraft wrote: post #35

simonbarker87 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been in and around manufacturing for the better part of a decade. I’ve run a small factory myself and have friends and family working at all levels of some of the largest factories in Europe. At the scale these things work out there’s no way to really “have a backup” not in the true sense that backup means. If you build a factory you use a factory - otherwise you’re wasting masses of money. What you should do is…

That is a thoughtful reply. Working in IT spoiled me, and I like having a backup or failover server or data centre but for Apple factory. But, it makes sense now, knowing the scale of this Apple iPhone factory, it is next to impossible to build the backup factory. Thanks!

There are aspects of this[1] book that I really enjoyed. I have no hardware/factory experience either but I had taken some operations research courses in college. In general, holding onto inventory more than you need is a waste of time, space, cost and introduces other complexities as well - like a defect identified even a little bit later in the process could lead to huge waste if you’re holding on to too much. But of course not having any sort of reserve also leads to issues.

During the pandemic one of the only car companies that didn’t have major disruption was Toyota and they were the pioneers of this model of operating but they also understood the need to keep reserves of critical components.

In the case of Apple, they do have a backup plan - the lower end models were already being manufactured outside China and they could scale that up while they scramble to fix the Pro lines.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Goal-Process-Ongoing-Improvement/dp/0...

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#243

Post by cjbgkagh » Sun, Dec 04, 2022, 6:20 PM UTC

jdhn wrote: post #227

fmajid wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonderful news indeed, but it’s not out of any ethical concerns, but because XI Jinping’s draconian zero-Covid policy and incessant lockdowns have made the Chinese supply-chain unreliable, something Apple like all businesses hate (remember, Tim Cook became head of Apple because of his supply-chain management chops). Still, good to see the totalitarian tyrant Xi wrecking China just as his inspiration Mao did back in t…

> the world will not naively give China the same opportunities again. I fear that you're wrong. Hopefully I'm the one who's wrong, but only time will tell.

My general rule; is there money in it? If so people will try again.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#244

Post by toast0 » Sun, Dec 04, 2022, 6:21 PM UTC

ticviking wrote: post #207

limitedmage wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nokia used to have a big factory in Mexico. Brazil already makes iPhones since it’s cheaper due to their insane import tax.

That seems to me like their import tax is working. I wish more countries had import taxes of this sort, they tend to push the nation to be a bit more diversified in their economy since they provide air cover for small local concerns.

> That seems to me like their import tax is working.

Kind of. And you can see it worked for India; they started making iPhones there because of the import tax and over time are exporting iPhones from India.

But there's a lot of products that aren't big enough to justify production in multiple locations, and Brazil tends to get those very late, if at all, because the import tax makes the prices way too high. Maybe video games aren't important, but Brazil has a wildly different experience with them than the rest of the world, because of the import tax.

Also, I think only the really populous countries can manage this style of tax. With smaller countries it's easier to accept the loss of sales and avoid the expense of local production.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#245

Post by coffeebeqn » Sun, Dec 04, 2022, 6:23 PM UTC

otikik wrote: post #175

fmajid wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonderful news indeed, but it’s not out of any ethical concerns, but because XI Jinping’s draconian zero-Covid policy and incessant lockdowns have made the Chinese supply-chain unreliable, something Apple like all businesses hate (remember, Tim Cook became head of Apple because of his supply-chain management chops). Still, good to see the totalitarian tyrant Xi wrecking China just as his inspiration Mao did back in t…

> good to see the totalitarian tyrant Xi wrecking China just as his inspiration Mao did back in the day This affects real people who just found themselves on this situation and have no power to change it. Gleefully calling the situation “good” is callous and insensitive.

> have no power to change it

Who are these people? The one and a half billion Chinese are powerless to rise up? No government can subjugate a billion people. Their state is powerful but it only works because the citizenry are decently happy with their lives getting better over the last decades

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#246

Post by dirtyid » Sun, Dec 04, 2022, 6:23 PM UTC

em500 wrote: post #109

nixcraft wrote: post #10

Three hundred thousand workers work at a factory in China to make iPhones? I didn't realise how massive the production line is, considering they have a 23% market share, and the rest is all Android lead by Samsung. I am always surprised that Apple (or other Western tech giants) never considered building backup factories. Did they never think about geopolitics or natural disasters and panamics? Apart from that iPhone…

Apple is selling 250-300m iPhones per year. With seasonal variation, there are months where they need to churn out over a million iPHones every day . Such scales are hard for any human to internalize.

I wonder how much assembly fees per device is now. PRC got $8 per 3G. It's wild to to think the actual assembling of 300M units per year doesn't amount to much.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#247

Post by dirtyid » Sun, Dec 04, 2022, 6:31 PM UTC

nixcraft wrote: post #10

Three hundred thousand workers work at a factory in China to make iPhones? I didn't realise how massive the production line is, considering they have a 23% market share, and the rest is all Android lead by Samsung. I am always surprised that Apple (or other Western tech giants) never considered building backup factories. Did they never think about geopolitics or natural disasters and panamics? Apart from that iPhone…

High import duties likely more than enough to incentivize local assembly. Whether India can translate ~10$ assembly per device into grabbing rest of supply chain and moving up value chain is another question. West somewhat proactively ceded manufacturing to PRC, PRC who dominants Apple's supplier list is not going to make the same mistake by ceding unrestricted to India, preferring instead to spread some capacity in ASEAN where they have more influence. IMO countries can only do so much to attract, especially when others are reluctant to relinquish.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#248

Post by akmittal » Sun, Dec 04, 2022, 6:33 PM UTC

bamboozled wrote: post #82

What about moving it too...a country where workers are paid properly and environmental standards are highest? Ha.

That means expensive product or lesser profit margin. I dont think Apple wnt either

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#249

Post by ftyhbhyjnjk » Sun, Dec 04, 2022, 6:34 PM UTC

FabHK wrote: post #217

fyresala wrote: post #26

iPhone made in China is no better than the cotton from Xinjiang. Earlier the reports are workers in the China iPhone factory had a protest and brutal conflict with the local police. Reasons varied from unbearable working condition, the zero-covid policy, and being deceived about the compensation. After the local police oppressed the campaign, the government assigned headcounts to local villages, demanding them to fil…

> iPhone made in China is no better than the cotton from Xinjiang. I think if you'll ask the suppressed people of Xinjiang, you'll find that they disagree. > It turns out that in spite of all values that Apple promotes, it actually cares about nothing but the profit How is Apple responsible for the Chinese Zero-COVID policy, and the actions of the Chinese police? Have you read Apple's extensive policies on Supply Cha…

I really hope Apple as a company dies asap. Fcking hypocrite company. One of the most morally bankrupt companies in the world.

And please, take whiny little pussy xi jinping with themselves too... in the ground.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#250

Post by saiya-jin » Sun, Dec 04, 2022, 6:38 PM UTC

ksec wrote: post #186

fyresala wrote: post #26

iPhone made in China is no better than the cotton from Xinjiang. Earlier the reports are workers in the China iPhone factory had a protest and brutal conflict with the local police. Reasons varied from unbearable working condition, the zero-covid policy, and being deceived about the compensation. After the local police oppressed the campaign, the government assigned headcounts to local villages, demanding them to fil…

>Apple and many westerners never understand the risk and the ethics implication of doing business in China. May be for many westerners, but not Apple. They knew exactly what they are doing. >It turns out that in spite of all values that Apple promotes, it actually cares about nothing but the profit and its comfortable zone in China. Which is the worst part of it all. Their insane hypocrisy. Now that Apple is only mov…

> May be for many westerners, but not Apple. They knew exactly what they are doing.

Yeah right, the idea that richest company ever didnt do a proper due dilligence and Tim personally didnt have whole + and - list with detailed financial and PR projections of each choice etc. is pretty naïve. I bet stuff thats happening was pretty high on cons list.

Everybody who wants to knows how things actually look like in China on the ground knows it easily these days, no mysteries. Suicides, oppression, child labor. Yet they couldnt care less and the only reason to move away is disruption of supply.

Ladies and gentlement there you have it, true morals of yet another big corporation, not worse but certainly not better.

But anytime I said something similar here on HN I get downvoted to hell, people for some ridiculous reason create tight emotional bond with a plastic gadgets in their pocket and go to great lengths to defend it regardless of facts.

And the last item - the idea that same amoral money-driven corporation on the other hand truly, properly cares about privacy beyond moves that look good from PR perspective is dangerously naïve too. There is simply no safe commercial phone, and Apple would have to open source all software and hardware to prove otherwise, so its just not happening.