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Iran abolishes morality police

hindustantimes.com

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Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#121

Post by Vt71fcAqt7 »

bnralt wrote: post #117
hairofadog wrote: post #91

It’s worth noting that Iran was a democracy until the 1953, when the US and UK supported a coup to install a corrupt dictator so they could avoid paying oil fees. The 1979 Iranian revolution was the pendulum swinging back hard the other way. I’m in no way supporting Iran’s religious extremism or current government, but they are monsters that we created. The coup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%…

> It’s worth noting that Iran was a democracy until the 1953, when the US and UK supported a coup to install a corrupt dictator This simply wasn't the case. I discuss this in a post below, but by the time Mossadegh was removed he had used a fraudulent plebiscite (claimed a 99.94% victory) to dissolve the parliament he had been feuding with and rule entirely by fiat. The Shah also wasn't installed by the U.S., he had…

Can you explain to what extent the US coup fits in to all this?

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#122

Post by Eisenstein »

hairofadog wrote: post #91

It’s worth noting that Iran was a democracy until the 1953, when the US and UK supported a coup to install a corrupt dictator so they could avoid paying oil fees. The 1979 Iranian revolution was the pendulum swinging back hard the other way. I’m in no way supporting Iran’s religious extremism or current government, but they are monsters that we created. The coup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%…

> but they are monsters that we created.

I think we should be careful using wording like that. The Iranians have agency and can do things on their own. Just because the west meddled in things doesn't give us the right to claim the results as ours, be they good or bad.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#123

Post by ethanbond »

cies wrote: post #110
enkid wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the entire elections system built to reinforce regime legitimacy? All of the candidates have to be approved by the Guardian Council which is controlled by the Supreme Leader, so it's not like they have any threat to the regime itself. It's a way to appear willing to reform without actually reforming.

Fucked up election systems everywhere. If there are basically only two parties by the way the counting works, then the those two parties can do the "approval of candidates" internally. Main difference being that one system is run by religious group, and the other by the influence of the super-party-donors (aka capitalists). Either way reform does not happen. Political prisoners (Assange in the west) still rotting in…

No, you don’t get executed in the US for saying “down with Biden/Trump/whoever.”

This “all imperfect systems are equally imperfect” is utterly detached from reality.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#124

Post by lajosbacs »

Matl wrote: post #55
lajosbacs wrote: post #7

As nntaleb postulates, once a dictatorship starts giving concessions, it is on its last legs. Therefore I do not believe this news.

Honest question; What motivation should a government like Iran's have to listen, if any concession it does give is seen in the West as a great opportunity to show that it is weak, on its last legs etc. to try and overthrow it? I am not naive enough to think this is the case here , but say theoretically at some point someone with power in such a government has a human moment and actually wants to give some concessions…

The 'West' might support the protesters, sure, but the effort is still negligible to the will of Iranians. What I read in your comment is that the ppl of Iran have no agency, all is just conflict between the 'West' and whatever. I just find this stance incredibly patronising. One hears the same thing on Ukraine (from Chomsky, for example).

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#125

Post by hgsgm »

hairofadog wrote: post #91

It’s worth noting that Iran was a democracy until the 1953, when the US and UK supported a coup to install a corrupt dictator so they could avoid paying oil fees. The 1979 Iranian revolution was the pendulum swinging back hard the other way. I’m in no way supporting Iran’s religious extremism or current government, but they are monsters that we created. The coup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%…

No post body was provided.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#126

Post by marcosdumay »

dartharva wrote: post #113
marcosdumay wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the fixation on the West? This is an entirely Iranian revolution, lead by their own people, with their own, very plain goals.

Because liberalism is largely a Western concept, at least in origin. And the conservative elites of Iran are popularly of the opinion that the riots and dissent are more a result of "Western" ideals polluting their core society than legitimate dissatisfaction among the people against the government.

> Because liberalism is largely a Western concept, at least in origin.

Hum... I suggest you take a deeper look at this.

Modern liberalism is an obvious progression of the ancient variety, and it's really ironic that we are talking about Iran.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#127

Post by hgsgm »

Vt71fcAqt7 wrote: post #121
bnralt wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s worth noting that Iran was a democracy until the 1953, when the US and UK supported a coup to install a corrupt dictator This simply wasn't the case. I discuss this in a post below, but by the time Mossadegh was removed he had used a fraudulent plebiscite (claimed a 99.94% victory) to dissolve the parliament he had been feuding with and rule entirely by fiat. The Shah also wasn't installed by the U.S., he had…

Can you explain to what extent the US coup fits in to all this?

No post body was provided.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#128

Post by dontbenebby »

r721 wrote: post #120
dontbenebby wrote: post #90

Thanks for this, I saw this on a domain I didn't recognize much earlier. In general is the Hindustan times pretty trustworthy? I mostly know about SE Asia, China and North Korean news sources outside the typical English language EU stuff, but sometimes I see things like this and am not sure if I should trust them and wait a bit and my usual source for anything adjacent to the Middle East or India (Al Jazeera) often l…

This thread provides some context: https://twitter.com/borzou/status/1599344163769978880 "Iran abolishes morality police" is a bad way to describe what really happened it seems: >So amazing how many news outlets are going with the "Iran abolishes morality police" line based on a convoluted quote from one official. In reality morality police have been inactive since protests started, but there is no substantive news o…

I'm not on Twitter, probably because I blocked Elon.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#129

Post by msrenee »

Eisenstein wrote: post #122
hairofadog wrote: post #91

It’s worth noting that Iran was a democracy until the 1953, when the US and UK supported a coup to install a corrupt dictator so they could avoid paying oil fees. The 1979 Iranian revolution was the pendulum swinging back hard the other way. I’m in no way supporting Iran’s religious extremism or current government, but they are monsters that we created. The coup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%…

> but they are monsters that we created. I think we should be careful using wording like that. The Iranians have agency and can do things on their own. Just because the west meddled in things doesn't give us the right to claim the results as ours, be they good or bad.

Well, we took their agency away and removed a government that at least wasn't outright killing women for wearing pants. This is also a great way to produce extremists, which then moved into the power vacuum created by throwing their governing system into chaos.

We've done it a number of times in South America as well. I'd say there's enough data points to believe that we punted them into the downwards spiral that they're struggling in now.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#130

Post by whateveracct »

cies wrote: post #110
enkid wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the entire elections system built to reinforce regime legitimacy? All of the candidates have to be approved by the Guardian Council which is controlled by the Supreme Leader, so it's not like they have any threat to the regime itself. It's a way to appear willing to reform without actually reforming.

Fucked up election systems everywhere. If there are basically only two parties by the way the counting works, then the those two parties can do the "approval of candidates" internally. Main difference being that one system is run by religious group, and the other by the influence of the super-party-donors (aka capitalists). Either way reform does not happen. Political prisoners (Assange in the west) still rotting in…

The United States' elections are simply not at the same level as Iran's (if that is what this comment is implying)
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